From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79A67FBF for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:58:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-it0-f41.google.com (mail-it0-f41.google.com [209.85.214.41]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13883334 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:58:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-it0-f41.google.com with SMTP id n7-v6so1935427itn.1 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 11:58:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=KmpG4XxU8Rrpu/Q2LvDsjs9/lNRIcACd8llQhgL3BSY=; b=tPj6vMHK6AUjBplk2nFEJPa6tbYRF3g0EagMwaaG7OwN7Nq9ALpCbM8zi2xdWV6rfT lBJU6kGPyEQebmw2ZhaAe0Z7qO2cYWjioWU+J4phkJGcuSFg1watdcUco82jXuq5qIws LhsXAWnKEELAG7jXyDh8qgx9r/I+Qx4b/XUhu1v0o/Qson2yFSOa0NvmHBScE7qxnPNN dfzMuGiAFkGX0B6I2oY8rXGSmyy4bI28Dv+6LE6KfauMuPEhi0mE8CcT4JNLB8u8uJy3 Vgn/EwZ+IbVMpjaYhSklgJ4xIDplb4ta5LQq44IStv+afkdmXgrZDX9XClFlmCaY5QLJ xsfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=KmpG4XxU8Rrpu/Q2LvDsjs9/lNRIcACd8llQhgL3BSY=; b=NB17aY6Kl454ezwXsMvYa4Eu8tb0nCFzrBJaL6HKsPw51aRnpOmCwZUvNdvTMaUmTe vd62UVZADghqgUHYpfOypsx4zoXc6GoLoHQk5xQ4xbxq7o3eNULv3OnfBkooKxdrhLR9 qE69Nu/MjrRzS1yIBIIg6rfK+fs9XD7FgzSt7YN5Sjrufw5rbyYXUoPi6ls0yVmw5Rdf 2D4oG5nqrsLDJ6kYYt8lAGh7AXNvz8G8wXdg5igMVot8QYY6qvYwgXcS5fMD8JWeUiFU T//jfXVvkTDft5vLVZOgQsvy/JtTGLjrB7h46doljNQKoIHCwFp5JaI3IJ9yqqSpaJ4v UgdA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E39ycn/khOE8iq0d09dccZVggiP0r3s/6s5tAp9fZpUfHaEcYSZ NlmeLbjufUhTPbETNsYfLnBl1PsByDmcDA1X5JE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKKATU49aQO9Wd1qVqt3GpoEmGwIPJJRwIIRdgRb8K2R17BSpt09vcqqZPwd8zIEj32ZhWOAiyFKZlrgOV/gqoA= X-Received: by 2002:a24:7748:: with SMTP id g69-v6mr13753564itc.3.1529434681432; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 11:58:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a6b:1dcb:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 11:58:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Richard Hein Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:58:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?B?0JDRgNGC0ZHQvCDQm9C40YLQstC40L3QvtCy0LjRhw==?= , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e4e159056f0342bd" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 12:25:31 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Miner dilution attack on Bitcoin - is that something plausible? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:58:02 -0000 --000000000000e4e159056f0342bd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's important therefore to ensure that everyone can make ASICs, IMHO. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:34 PM, =D0=90=D1=80=D1=82=D1=91=D0=BC =D0=9B=D0= =B8=D1=82=D0=B2=D0=B8=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=B8=D1=87 via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Dilution is a potential attack i randomly came up with in a Twitter > arguement and couldn't find any references to or convincing arguments of = it > being implausible. > > Suppose a malicious actor were to acquire a majority of hash power, and > proceed to use that hash power to produce valid, but empty blocks. > > As far as i understand it, this would effectively reduce the block rate b= y > half or more and since nodes can't differentiate block relay and block > production there would be nothing they can do to adjust difficulty or bla= ck > list the attacker. > > At a rough estimate of $52 per TH equipment cost (Antminer pricing) and > 12.5 BTC per 10 minutes power cost we are looking at an order of $2 billi= on > of equipment and $0.4 billion a month of power costs (ignoring block > reward) to maintain an attack - easily within means of even a minor > government-scale actor. > > Is that a plausible scenario, or am i chasing a mirage? If it is > plausible, what could be done to mitigate it? > > > -Artem > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --000000000000e4e159056f0342bd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's important therefore to ensure that everyone can m= ake ASICs, IMHO.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:34 PM, =D0=90=D1=80=D1=82=D1=91=D0=BC =D0=9B= =D0=B8=D1=82=D0=B2=D0=B8=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=B8=D1=87 via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrot= e:
<= div>Dilution is a potential attack i randomly came up with in a Twitter arg= uement and couldn't find any references to or convincing arguments of i= t being implausible.

Suppose a malicious actor were to acquire= a majority of hash power, and proceed to use that hash power to produce va= lid, but empty blocks.

As far as i understand it, this would e= ffectively reduce the block rate by half or more and since nodes can't = differentiate block relay and block production there would be nothing they = can do to adjust difficulty or black list the attacker.

At a r= ough estimate of $52 per TH equipment cost (Antminer pricing) and 12.5 BTC = per 10 minutes power cost we are looking at an order of $2 billion of equip= ment and $0.4 billion a month of power costs (ignoring block reward) to mai= ntain an attack - easily within means of even a minor government-scale acto= r.

Is that a plausible scenario, or am i chasing a mirage? If = it is plausible, what could be done to mitigate it?


-Artem=

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