From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF940409 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:51:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ig0-f171.google.com (mail-ig0-f171.google.com [209.85.213.171]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25EF01CB for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:51:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by igfj19 with SMTP id j19so78647460igf.1 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:51:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=aZbqrXhnbURDNz6C4QdQX480PV/OWIacsn5FK0L3kKw=; b=uJEW3C/arRkC98V0sqVK+S1SLV7dpcOJhx5O1VqbQqDETXs9EY8A3CAJ2fS/jHFyEf AnTZ+YWZ/f8Y2+M3TyI1IrAlHwqv7zo70qYqegyWWvYCLtnKD10Wdqr4oFVmG+7PnmaJ AaTVVIDOEnUqLdJYJv6MGisKrC2rcFXtHtJVdX9x46GZGinAeTQDQDNARiX8uvrlRLLg VVCTt8ZHgWSlaLiWcFCHhHeE/yMx31E0Y56j7PWHbCAnjMqmZzn925IdNhhLfZtXP2DY MuaBFNE6jwKNTxH/FJzcSAEbla2vtdTphtjMHe8NBy6PAHqIuAWeVOE/Vy4NKMOs6wTq QBaQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.79.196 with SMTP id l4mr18536665igx.48.1439319060605; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.91.135 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:51:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8181630.GdAj0CPZYc@coldstorage> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:51:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: Bryan Bishop To: Michael Naber , Bryan Bishop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Fees and the block-finding process X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:51:02 -0000 On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Michael Naber via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Note that lightning / hub and spoke do not meet requirements for users > wishing to participate in global consensus, because they are not global > consensus networks, since all participating nodes are not aware of all > transactions. You don't need consensus on the lightning network because you are using bitcoin consensus anyway. Commitment transactions are deep enough in the blockchain history that removing that transaction from the history is impractical. The remaining guarantees are ensured by the properties of the scripts in the transaction. You don't need to see all the transactions, but you do need to look at the transactions you are given and draw conclusions based on the details to see whether their commitments are valid or the setup wasn't broken. - Bryan http://heybryan.org/ 1 512 203 0507