From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1XZiQ9-0003UT-J1 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:35:57 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of pixodegames.com designates 209.85.217.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.171; envelope-from=flavien.charlon@pixodegames.com; helo=mail-lb0-f171.google.com; Received: from mail-lb0-f171.google.com ([209.85.217.171]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1XZiQ7-0004Ln-QL for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:35:57 +0000 Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id z12so2499869lbi.30 for ; Thu, 02 Oct 2014 08:35:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=NO7Edxx53GDj4qrFK3coCrOytdKc6wHPYGeictPnIGc=; b=jAQ6E6mbwvJWKCXRs/1GgGpjwjEq7XYYGZ8CR/0FubrpKMi3RzwPbWfuYTg8WTiqn9 wKM4ORMV0mlBKVmqGs6JjwDORO26u+ZbTbQ6IUILqwvTxfUtI1xRNhP7WAOPSmBJ67ps ymrLWW/hGzrg8vwJiQY08AXVE1OjilBcR9B4VRzCzkdeHC4gsLs8Z7GaeMMsvAdTp5Am MY/llOi012Bq0bArqEAhRL1/zDt9RPlkH5OY/Y+DrfQ+YlL02KN0wtOuLNYxkw3gWQPa XhVih2pYw/qBi0J/Dvntu2hPnTIgUFEPd7i7qDnU1moKCBEH7S6SX09TpxyJwF//9vrG ejRw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQltHCU5PAGUZuHy8XY4181Tnp/R+zF4TVy4ryeSL6mcGiXaTx6LZ5osEgcLLYThWjWTAA8g X-Received: by 10.153.6.36 with SMTP id cr4mr29490290lad.40.1412262342215; Thu, 02 Oct 2014 08:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-f44.google.com (mail-la0-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pr7sm1677743lbc.18.2014.10.02.08.05.41 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Oct 2014 08:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f44.google.com with SMTP id gb8so2572882lab.17 for ; Thu, 02 Oct 2014 08:05:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.16.129 with SMTP id g1mr59704807lbd.19.1412262341671; Thu, 02 Oct 2014 08:05:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.114.64.146 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Oct 2014 08:05:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [89.100.161.202] In-Reply-To: References: <20141001130826.GM28710@savin.petertodd.org> <201410011823.56441.luke@dashjr.org> <201410020055.37347.luke@dashjr.org> From: Flavien Charlon Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 16:05:01 +0100 Message-ID: To: Peter Todd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3c0523491e6050471f372 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1XZiQ7-0004Ln-QL Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP draft] CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY - Prevent a txout from being spent until an expiration time X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:35:57 -0000 --001a11c3c0523491e6050471f372 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Very good, I like the proposal. A question I have: can it be used to do the opposite, i.e. build a script that can only be spent up until block X? On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 2:09 AM, Peter Todd wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > > > On 1 October 2014 17:55:36 GMT-07:00, Luke Dashjr wrote: > >On Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:05:15 AM Peter Todd wrote: > >> On 1 October 2014 11:23:55 GMT-07:00, Luke Dashjr > >wrote: > >> >Thoughts on some way to have the stack item be incremented by the > >> >height at > >> >which the scriptPubKey was in a block? > >> > >> Better to create a GET-TXIN-BLOCK-(TIME/HEIGHT)-EQUALVERIFY operator. > >> scriptPubKey would be: > >> GET-TXIN-BLOCKHEIGHT-EQUALVERIFY > >> (fails unless top stack item is equal to the txin block height) > >> ADD > >> (top stack item is now txin height + delta height) > >> CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY > > > >This sounds do-able, although it doesn't address using timestamps. > > For timestamps replace "height" with "time" in the above example; the > minimum block time rule will prevent gaming it. > > > >> You'd want these sacrifices to unlock years into the future to > >thoroughly > >> exceed any reasonable business cycle; that's so far into the future > >that > >> miners are almost certain to just mine them and collect the fees. > > > >For many use cases, short maturity periods are just as appropriate IMO. > > Very easy to incentivise mining centralisation with short maturities. I > personally think just destroying coins is better, but it doesn't sit well > with people so this is the next best thing. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: APG v1.1.1 > > iQFQBAEBCAA6BQJULKWsMxxQZXRlciBUb2RkIChsb3cgc2VjdXJpdHkga2V5KSA8 > cGV0ZUBwZXRlcnRvZGQub3JnPgAKCRAZnIM7qOfwhcg8CACueZNGfWaZR+xyG9/o > JwDBCnqOtwr6Bnosg3vNcRIDUnmsh+Qkk5dk2JpqYNYw7C3duhlwHshgsGOFkHEV > f5RHDwkzGLJDLXrBwxxcIDdm3cJL8UVpQzJ7dD7aSnfj7MU/0aru3HaIU2ZfymUb > 63jhul6FGbXH3K6p3bOoNrfIrCCGOv8jOIzeAgxNPydk8MVPgRhlYLAKBJxu8nMr > 1oJGeaKVSGSPSrRdgS8tI4uOs0F4Q49APrLPGxGTERlATmWrr+asHGJTIxsB2IEm > vrNgVRpkaN4Of9k96qzD9ReKfBfqm0WQKLolcXCVqGpdoHcvXh2AeWdjB/EFTyOq > SOgO > =WybM > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer > Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports > Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper > Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > --001a11c3c0523491e6050471f372 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Very good, I like the proposal.

<= div>A question I have: can it be used to do the opposite, i.e. build a scri= pt that can only be spent up until block X?

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 2:09 AM, Peter= Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256



On 1 October 2014 17:55:36 GMT-07:00, Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
>On Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:05:15 AM Peter Todd wrote:
>> On 1 October 2014 11:23:55 GMT-07:00, Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org>
>wrote:
>> >Thoughts on some way to have the stack item be incremented by = the
>> >height at
>> >which the scriptPubKey was in a block?
>>
>> Better to create a GET-TXIN-BLOCK-(TIME/HEIGHT)-EQUALVERIFY operat= or.
>> scriptPubKey would be:
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0GET-TXIN-BLOCKHEIGHT-EQUALVERIFY
>> (fails unless top stack item is equal to the txin block height) >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<delta height> ADD
>> (top stack item is now txin height + delta height)
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY
>
>This sounds do-able, although it doesn't address using timestamps.<= br>
For timestamps replace "height" with "time" in t= he above example; the minimum block time rule will prevent gaming it.


>> You'd want these sacrifices to unlock years into the future to=
>thoroughly
>> exceed any reasonable business cycle; that's so far into the f= uture
>that
>> miners are almost certain to just mine them and collect the fees.<= br> >
>For many use cases, short maturity periods are just as appropriate IMO.=

Very easy to incentivise mining centralisation with short maturities= . I personally think just destroying coins is better, but it doesn't si= t well with people so this is the next best thing.
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