From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F17D71E for ; Wed, 11 May 2016 14:30:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wm0-f50.google.com (mail-wm0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35AF81C4 for ; Wed, 11 May 2016 14:30:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wm0-f50.google.com with SMTP id n129so222333228wmn.1 for ; Wed, 11 May 2016 07:30:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LxIB2L6ngu1hXSVcahno8h1kPVTE/cibWV4P+DgkkgU=; b=vVlPZ0zSt+71bfVZV61dZnInKDeFp8P1ITQLdP4ENkxRjbHbsQWXS4Pr7ETPXMvjii LIha9E1j3+ONJu3izbrfvvDpWuLgMgXk9cwbxEOEalnT6y9HgxFYCIGnOEzEHFhDz9yz nNC7Z1FmeX6zJFsIJ5vxqSzSsWg68sHZpHz5n+basY8JE6Qk3z3EL5mo8rVE7eKTY4pc g4K3WBY6w9849FihClkE019xujWnGduXDsgc9sSGr4YFEWqQJuddKrcjE4apwQslrXhH VrfSdbWa/6bkibrCRRaj6tmk9crN/SRLaFm3EnJTMO7NBvyDp/vuAl9qW/0lp371+i2X aT/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=LxIB2L6ngu1hXSVcahno8h1kPVTE/cibWV4P+DgkkgU=; b=jgcrm4LcvgSE76kNEHRTIb6FwlY0zcUXFXo/NRZGhrCYdJunj+m5nyOa5/nVpEBN7m b/Vmc9CdrJVIrNNgXpSYWNoAdGjF1Rrljei4azWRaBY5Is+zFK40vbJUxqhePuVuj5vO pP8pjIC2zrzUNVlcmvlw64FPvRDAhaor9pWDL2KQFdxj92Gs84RZJ4KjayZFROZCPQ4G Yahjr20Ewx9vb1zXlC7uoRUJ/UtjKOjZ2l8zu1Ioy/+BzAdWd9SIM5ZG2B+fbJN7kETz EfMWOpColeNWCaOQsCGA0KrxWX/8mDq4zW+7msnpmSEZDiXsfe0IHP9Roj6llxLduigZ 6T8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FX0B3L3KSQej/HM2Nm6jR/Ni+wvSLGNwa4oz0DCwuKNSGsryyYPg+DGTeydJXXWVQ== X-Received: by 10.28.90.65 with SMTP id o62mr463683wmb.16.1462977024981; Wed, 11 May 2016 07:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-f52.google.com (mail-wm0-f52.google.com. [74.125.82.52]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c16sm8805888wme.16.2016.05.11.07.30.23 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 11 May 2016 07:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-f52.google.com with SMTP id a17so86210216wme.0 for ; Wed, 11 May 2016 07:30:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.87.72 with SMTP id v8mr4663644wjz.68.1462977023765; Wed, 11 May 2016 07:30:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.155.36 with HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2016 07:30:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20160510185728.GA1149@fedora-21-dvm> From: Jannes Faber Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 16:30:04 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Sergio Demian Lerner , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf1981cd11047053291e13a X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making AsicBoost irrelevant X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 14:30:27 -0000 --047d7bf1981cd11047053291e13a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 11 May 2016 at 16:18, Sergio Demian Lerner via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Jorge Tim=C3=B3n said.. > > What do you mean by "embrace" in the context of a patented optimization > that one miner can prevent the rest from using? > > Everyone seems to assume that one ASIC manufacturer will get the advantag= e > of AsicBoost while others won't. If a patent license is non-exclusive, th= en > all can. > > 1. Whatever way you look at it, it will be an extra barrier of entry (cost, legal hassle, more complex chip design) for any new ASIC manufacturer trying to enter the market. That counters free competition and thus decentralization. 2. Why would you want to put yourself in the central spot of the big decider on who gets access to the technology (and therefore the whole mining game) and who doesn't. You're not afraid of NSA knocking on your door to politely hand you their blacklist? You don't think this counters all the years of hard work that went into Bitcoin exactly to avoid any such central points of authority? P.S. I'm not decided yet on being for or against a HF to ban AsicBoost myself, nor does my opinion count for much. But I think I do see real problems, like the above. --047d7bf1981cd11047053291e13a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On 11 May 2016 at 16:18, Sergio Demian Lerner via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
Jorge Tim=C3=B3n said..
> What do you mean by "embrace" in the context o= f a patented optimization that one miner can prevent the rest from using?
Everyone seems to assume that one ASIC manufacturer will get t= he advantage of AsicBoost while others won't. If a patent license is no= n-exclusive, then all can.
=C2=A0

=
1. Whatever way you look at it, it will be an ex= tra barrier of entry (cost, legal hassle, more complex chip design) for any= new ASIC manufacturer trying to enter the market. That counters free compe= tition and thus decentralization.

2= . Why would you want to put yourself in the central spot of the big decider= on who gets access to the technology (and therefore the whole mining game)= and who doesn't. You're not afraid of NSA knocking on your door to= politely hand you their blacklist? You don't think this counters all t= he years of hard work that went into Bitcoin exactly to avoid any such cent= ral points of authority?

P.S. I'= ;m not decided yet on being for or against a HF to ban AsicBoost myself, no= r does my opinion count for much. But I think I do see real problems, like = the above.

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