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From: William Swanson <swansontec@gmail.com>
To: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	Paul Puey <paul@airbitz.co>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal for P2P Wireless (Bluetooth LE) transfer of Payment URI
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 15:02:56 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CABjHNoTmj=wfjRwApZCJJTDhhwePh=VtXkJN0e3t1uQqmeMu6Q@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <C28CD881-DAB8-4EDB-B239-7D45A825EAF0@voskuil.org>

On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> wrote:
> A MITM can receive the initial broadcast and then spoof it by jamming the
> original. You then only see one.

You are right, of course. There is no way to make Bluetooth 100%
secure, since it is an over-the-air technology. You could try securing
it using a CA or other identity server, but now you've excluded ad-hoc
person-to-person payments. Plus, you need an active internet
connection to reach the CA.

You can try using proximity as a substitute for identity, like
requiring NFC to kick-start the connection, but at that point you
might as well use QR codes.

This BIP is not trying to provide absolute bullet-proof security,
since that's impossible given the physical limitations of the
Bluetooth technology. Instead, it's trying to provide the
best-possible security given those constraints. In exchange for this,
we get greatly enhanced usability in common scenarios.

There are plenty of usable, real-world technologies with big security
holes. Anybody with lock-picking experience will tell you this, but
nobody is welding their front door shut. The ability to go in and out
is worth the security risk.

Bluetooth payments add a whole new dimension to real-world Bitcoin
usability. Do we shut that down because it can't be made perfect, or
do we do the best we can and move forward?

-William



  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-02-05 23:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-02-05 20:06 [Bitcoin-development] Proposal for P2P Wireless (Bluetooth LE) transfer of Payment URI Paul Puey
2015-02-05 20:28 ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-05 20:37   ` Paul Puey
2015-02-05 20:43     ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-05 20:44   ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-05 20:50     ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-05 20:59       ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-05 21:19       ` Brian Hoffman
2015-02-05 21:23         ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-05 21:36         ` Mike Hearn
2015-02-05 21:46           ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-05 22:07             ` Paul Puey
2015-02-05 22:10               ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-05 22:49                 ` Roy Badami
2015-02-05 23:22                   ` MⒶrtin HⒶboⓋštiak
2015-02-05 23:02                 ` William Swanson [this message]
2015-02-05 23:34                   ` Roy Badami
2015-02-05 23:59                     ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-06  8:59                       ` Roy Badami
2015-02-06  9:13                         ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-06  0:58                     ` Paul Puey
2015-02-05 23:22                 ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-05 23:36                   ` MⒶrtin HⒶboⓋštiak
2015-02-05 23:46                     ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-06  0:04                       ` MⒶrtin HⒶboⓋštiak
2015-02-06  0:22                         ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-06  0:36                           ` Martin Habovštiak
2015-02-06  1:29                             ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-06  9:07                               ` MⒶrtin HⒶboⓋštiak
2015-02-10 16:55                                 ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-10 17:16                                   ` MⒶrtin HⒶboⓋštiak
2015-02-10 17:56                                     ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-06  0:49                       ` Paul Puey
2015-02-06  0:50                         ` Martin Habovštiak
2015-02-06  1:05                         ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-06  2:09                           ` Paul Puey
2015-02-05 22:02         ` Paul Puey
2015-02-05 22:01       ` Paul Puey
2015-02-05 22:05         ` Eric Voskuil
2015-02-05 22:08           ` Paul Puey
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-02-05  8:01 Paul Puey
2015-02-05 13:46 ` Andreas Schildbach
2015-02-05 13:57   ` Mike Hearn

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