From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5uLC-0004a2-CE for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:47:54 +0000 Received: from mail-wg0-f44.google.com ([74.125.82.44]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Y5uLB-00031R-6D for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:47:54 +0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f44.google.com with SMTP id b13so20462737wgh.3 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 02:47:47 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=2wqVWVbbyLwjq9H0/oH5pLLhKCs3jLQcUcvqS3t6Ug0=; b=gm+oh4dwj97rKcOvupjAmWXVsRSfJKSnIElat/rdbGDJaUweC7TNZ9fIJbplg6vVeS yPiApR1up9h52pdgzSA233wcgqxoj+2tnYys7kqPX0XVhZPNNZW5Z4UyXx2KyH/5d6Sy uLuUdn/tjQL0PhDWqj0IpLa29TSk6Bj3qBCoviTxG+cv0vrtkOxujkT3nDfBnyl+6CsR vc49SOBJHtM/O55Zp2+nlodr3AAQn4FQfJaqeiyUWzOSmQZztfFv5eg5WtnLL747QR51 wfwK+cAWTBeTdGpCAopuxy9KYcPn32bjFSrQ/y0XeKU4wX4lCWq32O58h82nCMfmvO8i StnQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk/WgybB131MQcSZUTsTwh73zGEOJMX6B5hNj5AOdPqrVLZh/aw6FhY7m+Y/2f0EciG1iv0 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.62.163 with SMTP id z3mr120064078wjr.74.1419936466996; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 02:47:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.167.34 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Dec 2014 02:47:46 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [85.59.141.34] In-Reply-To: <54A1C8CF.50907@monetas.net> References: <54A1A99E.1020604@certimix.com> <54A1C8CF.50907@monetas.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 11:47:46 +0100 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= To: Justus Ranvier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. X-Headers-End: 1Y5uLB-00031R-6D Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP: Voluntary deposit bonds X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:47:54 -0000 On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Justus Ranvier wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > On 12/29/2014 09:10 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: >> How does adding inputs to a coinbase differ from just having >> pay-to-fee transactions in the block? > > If a miner includes pay-to-fee transactions in a block, those fees > could be claimed by another miner in the case the first miner's block > is orphaned. > > Inputs to a generation transaction can not be similarly poached. > > That difference makes some services possible that would can not be > safely achieved with pay-to-fee transactions. What services? I must be missing something obvious about the motivation. I understand the difference between "paying to myself only when I mine the next block" and "offering fees to whoever mines this tx". But how does allowing miners to pay to themselves in this way help with security and future lower subsidies at all?