From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28303C0001 for ; Sat, 22 May 2021 14:55:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 157D7605D3 for ; Sat, 22 May 2021 14:55:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.803 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.803 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=jtimon-cc.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oDFc0kLfP-ja for ; Sat, 22 May 2021 14:55:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEBF8605CE for ; Sat, 22 May 2021 14:55:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com with SMTP id z38so1969373ybh.5 for ; Sat, 22 May 2021 07:55:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jtimon-cc.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=X1mMpmOxf+LBC3jOsIOZQcbZipFhwsNayAJ9/E/qqqs=; b=DVxklKOrUA792p8oTxqU2TGELR5IeaM38UbEY+wkrSmoBWTSwb3Q3UQ7BMuswF9niI Z0Uu0ISk4dLNIKtYztw4JY2DWwEMj7p7FqMjGgloqHBeseoQi+MEqdsKznJ9ORAgMvqy 5hTYWMNtCOOeLdP6pKKQM2kGTdfV4SDdIuQ0IQ4a3jB63t5zm399GVCuqt2E20tZLJzP vPkoPhS0Ct6q6UYs+MUvaIArGK2oJhy3KXxnLnTYxf4WbV/pQydNDpCyVoL9gWZqU/QP Ah2Aco2SK1udXPcnw1X4fWYH3YFWKeMioB1WBlAvfLbRbU5s9KfLfKja4RjUQyrFp1kZ EIlg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=X1mMpmOxf+LBC3jOsIOZQcbZipFhwsNayAJ9/E/qqqs=; b=gNoi6OI8nelWGoe+8TKEsnFJkQrf+SoeAqv5QDQ7WFeyvgjx5hfFbJLZHKWwwEHg29 d34btfTrsy6o0/RaCEV/iuwGaGeONvQzM7cbbleoXaoSPcqqdWFsaCyfR1UYzqsvejhO BhNWFAqSyUGDbhvUd7zMTruiVwKkt5yowBMC4RFqiwbjt91zDBSwOmxfnvD5ijn8fhmj IotDwww9INiUVFmXqg8BFK+4olkykEt1r7qFmZFP+1/9OCEEQUWv9S8kSs3Sp75cZN4D 6vp+8ess8Iy+mJqlpIoK/eKtNjXnio89mnbOI/CnONF4YUV8qFbzf7Fpbhm0KHQLN0GX s4kg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5309gxPP6clsJM3bMx/S8pjaT+CwL1bvan9gt/CauJUgWhN8kYC6 6VLrUk2GVEBatuQOkx1KLkTNwELkQjHE409GxKQM/g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyk3tFS1TgZkkvXkSjLyCUbMdieeeOOYsg3HzWdbdBgarI9zg9Wpo3NmyYD0g9gZ0qBnXZQf0yTeYovETIMhFo= X-Received: by 2002:a25:ae07:: with SMTP id a7mr21841801ybj.133.1621695337717; Sat, 22 May 2021 07:55:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 15:55:25 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Raystonn ." , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000089f3e305c2ec5e9a" Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Consensus protocol immutability is a feature X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 14:55:40 -0000 --00000000000089f3e305c2ec5e9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" That is clearly not true. People entretain making changes to the protocol all the time. Bitcoin is far from perfect and not improving it would be stupid in my opinion. Some improvements require changes to the consensus rules. Recent changes include relative lock time verify or segwit. These are important changes that made things like lightning much easier and efficient than they could possibly be without them. Taproot, which is a recent proposal, could help simplify the lightning protocol even further, and make it more efficient and its usage more private. And there are more use cases. There have been consensus rule changes since bitcoin started, and with good reason. As a user, you can always oppose new changes. And if enough users agree with you, you will be able to maintain your own chain with the old rules. At the same time, there's nothing you can do to stop other users who want those changes from coordinating with each other to adopt them. Perhaps you're interested in bip99, which discusses consensus rule changes in more detail. On Sat, May 22, 2021, 13:09 Raystonn . via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Suggestions to make changes to Bitcoin's consensus protocol will only ever > be entertained if Bitcoin is completely dead without such a change. Any > attempt to change consensus protocol without a clear and convincing > demonstration to the entire network of participants that Bitcoin will die > without that change is a waste of your own time. Bitcoin's resistance to > consensus changes is a feature that makes it resistant to being coopted and > corrupted. I recommend developers focus on making improvements that do not > attempt to change the consensus protocol. Otherwise, you are simply > working on an altcoin, which is off-topic here. > > Raystonn > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --00000000000089f3e305c2ec5e9a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That is clearly not true. People entretain making changes= to the protocol all the time. Bitcoin is far from perfect and not improvin= g it would be stupid in my opinion.
Some improvements requ= ire changes to the consensus rules.
Recent changes i= nclude relative lock time verify or segwit. These are important changes tha= t made things like lightning much easier and efficient than they could poss= ibly be without them.
Taproot, which is a recent pro= posal, could help simplify the lightning protocol even further, and make it= more efficient and its usage more private. And there are more use cases.

There have been consensus= rule changes since bitcoin started, and with good reason. As a user, you c= an always oppose new changes. And if enough users agree with you, you will = be able to maintain your own chain with the old rules. At the same time, th= ere's nothing you can do to stop other users who want those changes fro= m coordinating with each other to adopt them.

Perhaps you're interested in bip99, which discuss= es consensus rule changes in more detail.

=


On Sat, May 22, 2021, 13:09 Raystonn . via bi= tcoin-dev <bitc= oin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
Suggestions to make changes to Bitcoin's consensus protocol will only e= ver be entertained if Bitcoin is completely dead without such a change.=C2= =A0=C2=A0Any attempt to change consensus protocol without a clear and convincing demonstration to the entire network of part= icipants that Bitcoin will die without that change is a waste of your own t= ime.=C2=A0=C2=A0Bitcoin's resistance to consensus changes is a feature that makes it resistant to be= ing coopted and corrupted.=C2=A0 I recommend developers focus on making imp= rovements that do not attempt to change the consensus protocol.=C2=A0 Other= wise, you are simply working on an altcoin, which is off-topic here.

Raystonn

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