From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D0D1847 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:26:21 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wi0-f180.google.com (mail-wi0-f180.google.com [209.85.212.180]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB77F1A4 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:26:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wicmv11 with SMTP id mv11so39237083wic.0 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:26:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ITQJE8Q3VEnAoFKTXCvxmr08t8X+LgXQqdSFWJZsF7c=; b=eI7fTPjJYTLF0q8sI5+AQJoPZUNdLgK13GSr9ndF/RON2xTP0snzL6DNeyiB1Q7GCt XikvPTWytqx/MnMQxURRly42Z5K6fA6jFYyxr6vyvHoL19P+j1cdrbOBjJzt8pilpWax /MsZYmLyKAPX9+kgEuXAfG2Y0jNwX+8jlfXVciB0hbZvLHx6In5ycDxhrXbyyWT8bAHs JsdbXsfgjWdFNMPYpp+6AVZn5H7FqCa/QiNYuN6DE5cKYmc6lqHnN5Z4iShcupVZaJd/ jAjz1/oWhvfE1Unen8PqtQK1Zp8gBFDK3V2OpHo4bLKBijKeGRv/LKEqf0UalnqKrjmu ZqLw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkbq/XjlonnQwNdoB/Kbqbw9TG6qPBpWeAR6T59McYz5bq1xtx2uIhd05SoO5iAq8h6hW4X MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.181.13.195 with SMTP id fa3mr119661wid.7.1437683179510; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.95.168 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:26:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <55B113AF.40500@thinlink.com> <6F436293-9E2B-461C-B105-FC4CF9EBFC69@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 22:26:19 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= To: Jameson Lopp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Core and hard forks X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:26:21 -0000 On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Running a node certainly has real-world costs that shouldn't be ignored. > There are plenty of advocates who argue that Bitcoin should strive to keep > it feasible for the average user to run their own node (as opposed to > Satoshi's vision of beefy servers in data centers.) My impression is that > even most of these advocates agree that it will be acceptable to eventually > increase block sizes as resources become faster and cheaper because it won't > be 'pricing out' the average user from running their own node. If this is > the case, it seems to me that we have a problem given that there is no > established baseline for the acceptable performance / hardware cost > requirements to run a node. I'd really like to see further clarification > from these advocates around the acceptable cost of running a node and how we > can measure the global reduction in hardware and bandwidth costs in order to > establish a baseline that we can use to justify additional resource usage by > nodes. Although I don't have a concrete proposals myself, I agree that without having any common notion of what the "minimal target hardware" looks like, it is very difficult to discuss other things that depend on that. If there's data that shows that a 100 usd raspberry pi with a 1 MB connection in say, India (I actually have no idea about internet speeds there) size X is a viable full node, then I don't think anybody can reasonably oppose to rising the block size to X, and such a hardfork can perfectly be uncontroversial. I'm exaggerating ultra-low specifications, but it's just an example to illustrate your point. There was a thread about formalizing such "minimum hardware requirements", but I think the discussion simply finished there: - Let's do this - Yeah, let's do it - +1, let's have concrete values, I generally agree.