From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4803E15A5 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 09:25:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wi0-f176.google.com (mail-wi0-f176.google.com [209.85.212.176]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A53F6143 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 09:25:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wicmc4 with SMTP id mc4so25922610wic.0 for ; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 02:25:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=lJDJr6cto1BAnDXy9OlbnJ1vUltEqJmPk/3rrVOoNR8=; b=NttyRasrWizZ7BsJILgGAzVHfoN+cOQbm36JmUD4S0C+Anz6AxF3nFzjgXMgthMM8x 7ebm5mlIg9h6RLxeGzVCGQW6+2OBY149TxaKo8/MIxQJgjv4EiheXABuIZjq5cWZt0tM mWzJBus8gyYpvZ6aZJRXNk9arRJOY9vGy9OM1KSkDaX5uoUOuPQ8jekHK5IAWB7X4OU8 C5Vj8jwBEePekGFNJakse9MDu30FWefS+oX0u/bryB1Nx5Y/ZQ+HPROd1VzVTbUP/0XV sV/KaJO8rz2L8v7eTba2rXtSybvFQjkALR0mVNY60LiVvV0P07wdvo5OIj5LzvVjEszO krsA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm04FhfbZy+O5E5cQxN5KSIqTNVaItZ/jwICfKIML4I3ypy/xtAX9xefHaxL5axc/z9poVW MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.186.41 with SMTP id fh9mr2162309wic.7.1441099504239; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 02:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.234.197 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.234.197 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 02:25:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55E4CD16.3010508@openbitcoinprivacyproject.org> References: <602b978abcedd92fbed85f305d9d7bfe@cock.li> <55E4B8C9.5030606@openbitcoinprivacyproject.org> <91e79f981126ebe62e30df26e0c7ec50@cock.li> <55E4CD16.3010508@openbitcoinprivacyproject.org> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 11:25:03 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= To: Justus Ranvier Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c347c6095d67051eac2014 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Your Gmaxwell exchange X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 09:25:06 -0000 --001a11c347c6095d67051eac2014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Aug 31, 2015 3:01 PM, "Justus Ranvier via bitcoin-dev" < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > You keep using the word "decentralized" without explaining (and most > likely, understanding) what it means. I believe he explained very well what he meant by decentralized, please stop suggesting he doesn't understand his own thoughts: it is extremely irritating. > You say: > > > a system without the trust of third parties to process electronic payments > > What does it mean to use a decentralized network instead of a trusted > third party to process electronic payments? What undesirable actions can > a trusted third party perform that a decentralized network can not perform? For starters, a third party (or a recuded group of miners controlling the majority of the hashrate) can censor transactions. It doesn't matter how benevolent that party is: it can be forced to do it by the laws of its jurisdiction. If you don't care about this, I suggest you start a new system without expensive proof of work, you can replace it with block signing (it can still be multisig). It is already coded, just fork the alpha or the blocksigning branch in elementsProject (github). --001a11c347c6095d67051eac2014 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Aug 31, 2015 3:01 PM, "Justus Ranvier via bitcoin-dev" <bitcoin-dev@lists.lin= uxfoundation.org> wrote:
> You keep using the word "decentralized" without explaining (= and most
> likely, understanding) what it means.

I believe he explained very well what he meant by decentrali= zed, please stop suggesting he doesn't understand his own thoughts: it = is extremely irritating.

> You say:
>
> > a system without the trust of third parties to process electronic= payments
>
> What does it mean to use a decentralized network instead of a trusted<= br> > third party to process electronic payments? What undesirable actions c= an
> a trusted third party perform that a decentralized network can not per= form?

For starters, a third party (or a recuded group of miners co= ntrolling the majority of the hashrate) can censor transactions. It doesn&#= 39;t matter how benevolent that party is: it can be forced to do it by the = laws of its jurisdiction.

If you don't care about this, I suggest you start a new = system without expensive proof of work, you can replace it with block signi= ng (it can still be multisig). It is already coded, just fork the alpha or = the blocksigning branch in elementsProject (github).



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