From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47CDC002D for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:12:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D37D40476 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:12:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=jtimon-cc.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CgIyqdv62xup for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:12:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-yw1-x112b.google.com (mail-yw1-x112b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112b]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6091B4000B for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:12:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yw1-x112b.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-2f7c424c66cso33265537b3.1 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:12:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jtimon-cc.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=us8ovWCvx2hOHMlUamwMQg2K1DXGfEz/fUz4Flv4ROw=; b=mm1HTYFLi3ispCIq4aY7iur1uKtcrZBY9YbXiPRlzo9QDDNAPzJjoDAVWERf+iIFSL BJSIUnHV0Gp5smbjgQYmwfJzrX+2DHMZU+d5GzrNxfxrkyqMdzPhuwgcjSWweD0yGee8 +1X47/YVYqeUQQKPQduDHXFEXfjjz1dz6wq9Q7UW8maGY7qc0TMpqXd3KP3Y4/6TzGHA 3pfKvRYj3bLhSjLLoI7iQPJkAwWoBSdICdXQYsMkwjdv+0DH/wCoIOj3WcE1qfLDLhQI mGt1i5Ye7lLVEV5I5XHE4+L+8Z73KUKPoqjuMmEeD8nQQtEQMO+BZVrsYuJMFFMYgV2i mVAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=us8ovWCvx2hOHMlUamwMQg2K1DXGfEz/fUz4Flv4ROw=; b=Erge2pRqzyI1fMsldneX9fa2XhGwjKn3cnia0IYzU85Ft8rMcMHwq9LScET52sxTeL aFahGxIlvDkJILhXg9EY3XELd8TysjlrSNhedsHfaTcwX+XCBSBdkcNjSCxOC/GJKhBy 2j3+abYsiNQAn/n07PP12mmUrv7qIDelexF8uzS9hBCRNUK11ioYQqPlC3/88nOUp5G/ afwxE/18xrQk2eI7qITSKGGPGyXjrzz/1dFW/pQEVu2zC+Qmq1s6rUSPn5pNyOEsXGbI kdY9CFStalwwaSE/P+LfkH/AsCohuLfcboauOZxQGEuACek/KZ3e5riytLlWFo8BSyUs oHzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530VAm07R9NH3zJZV41G5TE4TH6kE6mu14yXsMPNAPVU/6sx3hQE 3mszQBznvz4Ds/O6+pNKkVk2J02QRk/tjjKmX2hWLw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwH5bNiy5vSv80xMweYezractX+5406Itka8Fz2YoY8yXSUnr6QH63CQoc4CgFJA7iZsWcxVhndpl5UNyOnaJs= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:d80b:0:b0:2f7:c74f:7ca5 with SMTP id a11-20020a0dd80b000000b002f7c74f7ca5mr6297453ywe.489.1650805926225; Sun, 24 Apr 2022 06:12:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:11:55 +0200 Message-ID: To: Ryan Grant Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d37bcb05dd66340b" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 18:57:46 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] User Resisted Soft Fork for CTV X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:12:08 -0000 --000000000000d37bcb05dd66340b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 2:56 PM Ryan Grant wrote: > Michael and Jorge, > > It is ethically inappropriate to make personal attacks on the > trustworthiness of participants on this list, on such vague grounds as > disliking an activation proposal! > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith > I don't think the same principle is being applied to me and other people, sadly. Some people disregard dissent on the grounds that it comes from "people who just loo for dissent". I don't think it is unethical to say the truth. In fact, I think it is fair that I clarify my bias against jeremy. I realize it can be held against me. What I think is hypocritical and unethical is having rules that are only expected to be followed by some. Is everyone assuming good intentions from me? Is everyone assuming good intentions from luke? Is everyone assuming good intentions from michael? I don't think so. It is against the spirit of the project to base your judgements of a > technical solution on who presents them! You should not be so > technically adrift that you only have reputation left to speak about. > I disagree, I think it is against the spirit of the project to trust ideas based on who they come from. In that sense, I apologize for not being able to distrust every other developer as much as I can distrust jeremy. > If you disagree with ideas, then shoot them down on the technical merits. > > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-October/011457.html > I've tried regarding bip8 and speedy trial. I may be wrong, but I think those ideas have been discarded not on their technical merits, but based on who were promoting them. I feel there has been a biased against people like Luke-jr or me. That's subjective. Perhaps I'm just being paranoid. But I truly think Jeremy distrusts me and luke as much as I distrusts him, he just won't say it. Anyway, I had said it once before, so I guess there's no need to further disclaim my bias against jeremy. > If you disagree with people, then take it to smuttier sections of the > Internet. > > Yeah, to twitter, right? lol, sorry, I couldn't resist the joke. Sorry. --000000000000d37bcb05dd66340b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 2:56 PM Ryan = Grant <bitcoin-dev@rgrant.org<= /a>> wrote:
M= ichael and Jorge,

It is ethically inappropriate to make personal attacks on the
trustworthiness of participants on this list, on such vague grounds as
disliking an activation proposal!

=C2=A0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe= dia:Assume_good_faith

I don't t= hink the same principle is being applied to me and other people, sadly.
=
Some people disregard dissent on the grounds that it comes from = "people who just loo for dissent".
I don't thin= k it is unethical to say the truth. In fact, I think it is fair that I clar= ify my bias against jeremy.
I realize it can be held against me. =
What I think is hypocritical and unethical is having rules t= hat are only expected to be followed by some.

Is e= veryone assuming good intentions from me?
Is everyone assumi= ng good intentions from luke?
Is everyone assuming good intention= s from michael?

I don't think so.

<= /div>
It is against the spirit of the project to base your judgements of a
technical solution on who presents them!=C2=A0 You should not be so
technically adrift that you only have reputation left to speak about.

I disagree, I think it is against the spirit= of the project to trust ideas based on who they come from.
In th= at sense, I apologize for not being able to distrust every other developer = as much as I can distrust jeremy.
=C2=A0
If you disagree with ideas, then shoot them down on the technical merits.
=C2=A0 https://lists= .linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-October/011457.html
=

I've tried regarding bip8 and spe= edy trial. I may be wrong, but I=20 think those ideas have been discarded not on their technical merits, but based on who were promoting them. I feel there has been a biased=20 against people like Luke-jr or me.
That's subjective.=20 Perhaps I'm just being paranoid. But I truly think Jeremy distrusts me= =20 and luke as much as I distrusts him, he just won't say it.
An= yway, I had said it once before, so I guess there's no need to further = disclaim my bias against jeremy.
=C2=A0
If you disagree with people, then take it to smuttier sections of the Inter= net.


Ye= ah, to twitter, right? lol, sorry, I couldn't resist the joke.
Sorry.




=C2= =A0
--000000000000d37bcb05dd66340b--