From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EFC745E for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:28:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-lb0-f172.google.com (mail-lb0-f172.google.com [209.85.217.172]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 436B62C4 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:28:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbbqi7 with SMTP id qi7so81004627lbb.3 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:28:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=E6OkZ7zbtE7OpX8qvMg/43A8Mq3KLUo8ht/7MxKtiBA=; b=UP1jprKDHG7H9HgZA8mVPz/EnOoa5vWsjv+7GHx75or25S4EcYSsXv5UbRZO1bvDLz PUpCcLQNhLSCy1Eb7iV8ZlZxhaY1cJ33tJHI/txo+JaNC/pE92T7TNWeB1iWFd8qdrmg TwE/BeNHsdMqQKstVRSZxnF3SMyYVsVZMWOdtPknRu7sgkqXJz5+7HdYrmarNJutsCPP BN/zUq7XDNtXkYwHYdhhVlogMRDEqraw/NvHgAq8+JFvifXz74+5ZzKvr4b7BPwfzoKI 9yS3mYkOV/mvK/uV2ihdHkjEmEd1i8Fw4ukZ309rc+isrB+qkIAGmXTafbZQESecfJMC Fi5w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.239.43 with SMTP id vp11mr6158156lbc.75.1437668924796; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.25.90.75 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:28:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55B113AF.40500@thinlink.com> References: <55B113AF.40500@thinlink.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 12:28:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: Gavin Andresen To: Tom Harding Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113492b8913735051b8d61a2 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Core and hard forks X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:28:47 -0000 --001a113492b8913735051b8d61a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > On 7/23/2015 5:17 AM, Jorge Tim=C3=B3n via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > they will simply advance the front and start another battle, because > > their true hidden faction is the "not ever side". Please, Jeff, Gavin, > > Mike, show me that I'm wrong on this point. Please, answer my question > > this time. If "not now", then when? > > Bitcoin has all the hash power. The merkle root has effectively > infinite capacity. We should be asking HOW to scale the supporting > information propagation system appropriately, not WHEN to limit the > capacity of the primary time-stamping machine. > > We haven't tried yet. I can't answer for the people you asked, but > personally I haven't thought much about when we should declare failure. Yes! Lets plan for success! I'd really like to move from "IMPOSSIBLE because... (electrum hasn't been optimized (by the way: you should run on SSDs, LevelDB isn't designed for spinning disks), what if the network is attacked? (attacked HOW???), current p2p network is using the simplest, stupidest possible block propagation algorithm...)" ... to "lets work together and work through the problems and scale it up." I'm frankly tired of all the negativity here; so tired of it I've decided to mostly ignore all the debate for a while, not respond to misinformation I see being sprea= d (like "miners have some incentive to create slow-to-propagate blocks"), work with people like Tom and Mike who have a 'lets get it done' attitude, and focus on what it will take to scale up. --=20 -- Gavin Andresen --001a113492b8913735051b8d61a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= hu, Jul 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
On 7/23/2015 5:17 AM, Jorge Tim=C3= =B3n via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> they will simpl= y advance the front and start another battle, because
> their true hidden faction is the "not ever side". Please, Je= ff, Gavin,
> Mike, show me that I'm wrong on this point. Please, answer my ques= tion
> this time. If "not now", then when?

Bitcoin has all the hash power.=C2=A0 The merkle root has effectivel= y
infinite capacity.=C2=A0 We should be asking HOW to scale the supporting information propagation system appropriately, not WHEN to limit the
capacity of the primary time-stamping machine.

We haven't tried yet.=C2=A0 I can't answer for the people you asked= , but
personally I haven't thought much about when we should declare failure.=
=C2=A0
Yes! Lets plan for success!
<= div>
I'd really like to move from "IMPOSSIBLE becaus= e... =C2=A0(electrum hasn't been optimized
(by the way: you s= hould run on SSDs, LevelDB isn't designed for spinning disks),
what if the network is attacked? =C2=A0(attacked HOW???), current p2p net= work is using
the simplest, stupidest possible block propagation = algorithm...)"

... to "lets work togethe= r and work through the problems and scale it up."

=
I'm frankly tired of all the negativity here; so tired of it I'= ;ve decided to mostly ignore
all the debate for a while, not resp= ond to misinformation I see being spread
(like "miners have = some incentive to create slow-to-propagate blocks"),
work wi= th people like Tom and Mike who have a 'lets get it done' attitude,= and
focus on what it will take to scale up.

= --
--
Gavin Andresen

--001a113492b8913735051b8d61a2--