From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UyiTZ-0000hB-W9 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:06:02 +0000 Received: from mail-lb0-f173.google.com ([209.85.217.173]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1UyiTY-0003zP-5g for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:06:01 +0000 Received: by mail-lb0-f173.google.com with SMTP id v1so9329188lbd.32 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:05:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=VmNw3c2wAcMTk8wXeNPf+pcmI0onq8yiaRWgKX1dUJA=; b=TPuqQYt7uDbOXpLEx+FbkDbprhF29e1nkdSbVtULRJYIdgUdBpdyj80d+aWBMd2C3z RvviVhtji6jNKSL4jFRTNcNlD9z9s2QKYIJdVEaomSmOpCnOaqz36PNsEQFa4kRxkXnF 8Hax2ACgxq2ah2a0VDjOYyw4m3Xw9oeSASF3bUfGjxeJndpQMgeStCPczNQ4/BD1WIu4 +T6GY71IXBuzqpj/sWqnn1Uu4v7Rud7BFEKyCbK74cYwrP4Nz+zGC6Z13dvQex7gwWIr VZLWHQLCQVOCSy3AhlQS9MM0GNfrxC5ahyjrTrG0YfSSyloskMD8d5KsQjA5Oxa6+qBK 36mA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.88.5 with SMTP id bc5mr24455980lab.81.1373893553030; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.185.3 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 06:05:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [91.126.236.76] In-Reply-To: <20130715095107.GA8828@savin> References: <20130705140140.GA23949@netbook.cypherspace.org> <20130712131815.GA18716@petertodd.org> <20130715095107.GA8828@savin> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:05:52 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Tim=F3n?= To: Peter Todd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlg5jz9JRRXAIFfgfYwdZNPnAj0+rOUg62phI8zvizmrR8u0skP8WKjbEnTJ/WAIaYgb5xL X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. X-Headers-End: 1UyiTY-0003zP-5g Cc: Bitcoin-Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] libzerocoin released, what about a zerocoin-only alt-coin with either-or mining X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:06:02 -0000 One way sacrifice (btc to zerocoin) is a non-issue since there's no modification required for bitcoin and you can't do anything to prevent it anyway. The controversial thing is sacrificing something outside bitcoin's chain and new btc appearing. On merged mining. It is true that "merged attacking" the other chain is free, but it is still more profitable to just follow the rules and mine the other coin!! If someone considers that something he can sell in a market for btc is "negative value"...well, he's just dammed stupid. Proof of work is designed for rational actors, if you stop assuming miners are more or less rational everything falls apart. It is possible that the "extra value" is too little for some miners to bother. But the extra costs of validating something else are so little compared to chance-hashing that miners not merged mining namecoin right now are just stupid (irrational agents). You can merged mine and sell for btc right away. On prime proof of work...for me it's interseting only because it's moving towards SCIP-based mining but that should be the goal. Like Mark said, "let's cure cancer" while mining. That would end all "mining is wasteful" arguments about this great security system. This would make Ripple's consensus mechanism less attractive. People talking about new scrypts harder to ASIC-mine when that's the elephant in the room... Sorry, I'm going off-topic. SCIP-based merged mining for the win. On 7/15/13, Peter Todd wrote: > On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 11:32:39AM -0700, Peter Vessenes wrote: >> One very real issue for alt-currencies that don't peg to Bitcoin is that >> market liquidity is a bitch. By almost all standards current global >> Bitcoin >> liquidity is already very, very low. Too low for many transactions that >> come across my desk at least. >> >> There are a lot of reasons for that low liquidity, but to try and float = a >> new pair for which the likely initial counter-asset is going to be >> Bitcoin >> means minuscule liquidity. > > Being able to have automated Bitcoin<->Zerocoin P2P trading without an > exchange is also significantly more desirable from a privacy standpoint. > Basically it reduces the privacy risks of doing the exchange to spending > the Zerocoins in the first place. > > -- > 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org > 00000000000000878c30a45104c48fd4e8037cb5b3ba1e14dc4d8bef72eff1be > --=20 Jorge Tim=F3n http://freico.in/