From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tfxgk-0003TW-E5 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 18:57:50 +0000 Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com ([209.85.216.54]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Tfxgg-0007vb-RE for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 18:57:50 +0000 Received: by mail-qa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id j15so1178318qaq.13 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:57:41 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=1l1fs2yvAppUd6wTz7yNjoh0dwEr6di8KI2ORQYu29c=; b=ifb/qBzYBjUiunJVfVYYL3GgC3rKcfp96bt4ItLI8dRwH5Sd/P7DoCnTRc8DZolo7c Nl7FZCSH24etX+ZT+zY3b7be+MoYy1KOAYtWNV9ktRIOswrVxBJ1igQXbjKNz9msic85 mg7dUMpX3UP0XJ9Aq5j4Ot4PqZ6Su7MYK4qguTszu3NQ2ACIsbvwUJuh3teW2lmFj+nR M7YBfeYbmopNEq4GbsiEb9HPRgjpAl1O7b5O6rMJby/NDGQkBCkiI5/PVeBNJUtCMvdv 7Cu+ZRzg5SAvX37u0S99e9Q36WR0aQ6sDX9IXEByHutQumImiEtFYvEQZYkhZUk6w4zB loUw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.201.73 with SMTP id ez9mr24260580qab.92.1354647461039; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.120.4 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 10:57:40 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [128.102.238.175] In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 10:57:40 -0800 Message-ID: From: Mark Friedenbach To: Mike Hearn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3010edafb60e8d04d00b70f7 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlP6sn6lAn4OXwBt6Zy/tF1RrkmnBHWB5otb8ZSt95raLzZgC73KwTP1pfWQ/3i7FuH7KeY X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1Tfxgg-0007vb-RE Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 18:57:50 -0000 --20cf3010edafb60e8d04d00b70f7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Alan's UTxO meta-chain proposal becomes vastly easier to do now that ultraprune is merged. That would allow the Satoshi client to know it's wallet balance and operate with a >=SPV level of security during the initial block download, and keep them on the path of becoming a full node. If users can see their balances, send and receive transactions, and otherwise go about their business (except for mining) during the initial block download, would that not address your concerns? IMHO the only time bitcoin.org should recommend a SPV-only client is when it is dynamically when it is being accessed from a mobile device, but that's a separate issue. Mark On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > At the moment if you visit bitcoin.org then you're recommended to > download the full client. I think we all agree that at some point we > need to start presenting users with something more like this: > > > To get started, download wallet apps A or B. > > If you'd like to contribute your computing resources to the Bitcoin > network and have a fast computer with an unfiltered internet > connection, download: > > - for desktop machines, Bitcoin-Qt > - for servers, bitcoind > > > > Obviously not that exact wording. > > I personally feel it's a bit early for this, but it's true that users > are being turned away by the fact that they're pointed to Bitcoin-Qt > by default, so having some kind of roadmap or plan for changing that > would be good. > > I think MultiBit is maturing into a client that I'd feel comfortable > recommending to end users who take the fast-start path, though it > still has a few serious lacks (encrypted wallets aren't released yet, > bloom filters will help performance a lot, needs to catch up with some > newer features). But there doesn't have to be a one true client. > > The alternative, I guess, is to make Bitcoin-Qt have an SPV mode. I'm > not convinced this is the best use of time, but if somebody steps up > to do it, that could also work. MultiBit has some unique features that > are quite useful like integrating charting and exchange rate feeds. > > What does everyone think on this? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > --20cf3010edafb60e8d04d00b70f7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan's UTxO meta-chain proposal becomes vastly easier to do now that ul= traprune is merged. That would allow the Satoshi client to know it's wa= llet balance and operate with a >=3DSPV level of security during the ini= tial block download, and keep them on the path of becoming a full node. If = users can see their balances, send and receive transactions, and otherwise = go about their business (except for mining) during the initial block downlo= ad, would that not address your concerns?

IMHO the only time bitcoin.org shoul= d recommend a SPV-only client is when it is dynamically when it is being ac= cessed from a mobile device, but that's a separate issue.

Mark


On Tue, Dec 4= , 2012 at 9:46 AM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
At the moment if you visit bitcoin.org then you're recommended to
download the full client. I think we all agree that at some point we
need to start presenting users with something more like this:


To get started, download wallet apps A or B.

If you'd like to contribute your computing resources to the Bitcoin
network and have a fast computer with an unfiltered internet
connection, download:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0- for desktop machines, Bitcoin-Qt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0- for servers, bitcoind



Obviously not that exact wording.

I personally feel it's a bit early for this, but it's true that use= rs
are being turned away by the fact that they're pointed to Bitcoin-Qt by default, so having some kind of roadmap or plan for changing that
would be good.

I think MultiBit is maturing into a client that I'd feel comfortable recommending to end users who take the fast-start path, though it
still has a few serious lacks (encrypted wallets aren't released yet, bloom filters will help performance a lot, needs to catch up with some
newer features). But there doesn't have to be a one true client.

The alternative, I guess, is to make Bitcoin-Qt have an SPV mode. I'm not convinced this is the best use of time, but if somebody steps up
to do it, that could also work. MultiBit has some unique features that
are quite useful like integrating charting and exchange rate feeds.

What does everyone think on this?

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LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial
Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers
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