From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC3CC002D for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2022 12:27:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C23D8203C for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2022 12:27:31 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org 0C23D8203C Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gap600.com header.i=@gap600.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=google header.b=UyBFEQuH X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z5N7fti3jd2h for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2022 12:27:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org C570D82040 Received: from mail-ua1-x930.google.com (mail-ua1-x930.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::930]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C570D82040 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2022 12:27:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ua1-x930.google.com with SMTP id 97so548350uam.0 for ; Thu, 01 Dec 2022 04:27:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gap600.com; s=google; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=w1MwWpoTlgsMm/hMaew3Bd1NmXTxkXenb1By44KNyOE=; b=UyBFEQuHRCDDwc2WMIhfiIsefR9AABpqgiEN6IAaHZKjpm3xg7AbtinfX5sM/IF/aE xm464kb3K0gSOnTAi5Cy9wd1za8Y5MOdvYC9tvFlM/ytoFAKzHRzZ8YXzMTPRNyEJEjq +AqjOOEP0nSJCI+vQsrHm0eoEihBNV+M+Rp08EeLJRJwWASY91Y2AWVwbok/y8gE32Tb GZYlPdkiJ4SBSSrCYDITiu8n9ju5n43eJetX6T/+8QI/XqxaoBO98svHGnNwGqECqwrI HTdjx8nYavjh1RRQXKMCDYldN4P3gqjqkN+7wlJ51W5vtglA++owNIh7brp+UmGNK6bY KPFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=w1MwWpoTlgsMm/hMaew3Bd1NmXTxkXenb1By44KNyOE=; b=popqm9PUlTx2EMqOcInlIq2sy0KmlcmuivOSFCy54WomNQPcE6PIvfZW8wzdjs/L0A uZ+UM2YdFR00kJz/Y9FqHKc7boxcW1TPdc/5wUc0aoyvVHZ5BBZfIUi9nUAwx3z42ZT0 uosri8+2EgnnRDYjJSzmFwL97g/GCuIIopLQJ0mMI553rj25YHQht8eCmhs3dAnVsqYW R3aLRcNFTO4pOQf0NQPtaNLwbZxjoU48bMfXiVirKHWrwmJMTKRuG4dZOWsTAQBnmLIw MkBGzVvinLw0NN8shSkB+eqOA1pa8fMZi/DVqady2r8+tHkbIe4mpIozYGM6zhktiITF zPEA== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pnA00A3ISNW45czKaiHRTpPlqewJoYTETRhdjEwKPCllW+QIWrK 26O2IaS3s1WPAiy0ux9EMQ+7N1XXuD12B7jIF6b6/EBEFBh8Ag== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5XcTvURxbQ6gJIELO8EfD6TgF3B7rjjH53t38r0Z1FrLbTquly6T4iZreZT+1F2gbjl7lpax7y9KtWGUHoV8I= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:1511:0:b0:3d7:4a24:7aef with SMTP id o17-20020ab01511000000b003d74a247aefmr29307384uae.58.1669897648063; Thu, 01 Dec 2022 04:27:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Daniel Lipshitz Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 14:27:16 +0200 Message-ID: To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001fe4fb05eec358d0" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:32:12 +0000 Subject: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2022 12:27:46 -0000 --0000000000001fe4fb05eec358d0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" HI All I am the CEO of GAP600. We guarantee zero confirmed Bitcoin and other crypto transactions, BTC is a primary part of our business. Our guarantee enables our customers to recognise zero-conf deposits. We reimburse our clients value of the trx should we get it wrong and a transaction we confirmed gets double spent. Should full RBF become default enabled and significantly adopted this would have a major impact on the capacity to accept zerof confs on mainnet. With the end result being this use case will be forced to move to a different chain, with lightning being just another option. I wanted to share some statistics about how significant this use case is. GAP600 clients are primarily payment processors and non custodial liquidity providers; you can see some of our clients on our site www.gap600.com. There are also merchants who have developed their own tools so GAP600 statistics are only a subset of the full use case. I do not know of any wallet, exchange or custodian who accepts zero conf without having some sort of solution in place. The market seems to be fully aware of the risks of zero-conf. The opt-RBF seems to be a solution which gives a clear free choice for actors. Statistics for consideration as a sample of the zero conf use case - 1. As of end of Nov 2022 - GAP600 has processed i.e responded to circa 15M transactions 2. These transactions have a cumulative value of 2.3B USD value. 3. We currently are seeing circa 1.5M transactions queired per month. It's a sizable amount of trxs on mainet and we are by no means the full market of platforms accepting zero-conf. I realise there are other considerations which BTC has, I would urge you to take into account the major risk being placed on this significant market share when deciding to make this feature default enabled and encouraging full adoption. Thank you for your consideration Daniel ________________________________ Daniel Lipshitz GAP600| www.gap600.com --0000000000001fe4fb05eec358d0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HI All

I am the CEO of GAP600. We guara= ntee zero confirmed Bitcoin and other crypto=C2=A0 transactions, BTC is a p= rimary part of our business. Our guarantee enables our customers to recogni= se zero-conf deposits. We reimburse our clients value of the trx should we = get it wrong and a transaction we confirmed gets double spent.
Should full RBF become default enabled and significantly adopt= ed this would have a major impact on the capacity to accept zerof confs on = mainnet. With the end result being this use case will be forced to move to = a different chain, with lightning being just another=C2=A0option.

I wanted to share some statistics about how significant thi= s use case is.=C2=A0
GAP600 clients are primarily payment process= ors and non custodial liquidity=C2=A0providers; you can see some of our cli= ents on our site www.gap600.com. Ther= e are also merchants who have developed their own tools so GAP600 statistic= s are only a subset of the full use case.=C2=A0

I = do not know of any wallet, exchange or custodian who accepts zero conf with= out having some sort of solution=C2=A0in place. The market seems to be full= y aware of the risks of zero-conf. The opt-RBF seems to be a solution which= gives a clear free choice for actors.

Statistics = for consideration as a sample of the zero conf use case -=C2=A0
<= br>
  1. As of end of Nov 2022 - GAP600 has processed i.e resp= onded to circa 15M transactions
  2. These transactions have a cumulativ= e value of 2.3B USD value.=C2=A0
  3. We currently are seeing circa 1.5M= transactions queired per month.=C2=A0

I= t's a sizable amount of trxs on mainet and we are by no means the full = market of platforms accepting zero-conf.=C2=A0=C2=A0I realise there are oth= er considerations which BTC has,=C2=A0 I would urge you to take into accoun= t the major risk being placed on this significant market share when decidin= g to make this feature default enabled and encouraging=C2=A0full adoption.<= /div>

Thank you for your consideration
Daniel<= /div>
________________________________
<= br>
= Daniel Lipshitz
GAP600|=C2=A0www.gap600.com

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