From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: <jaredr26@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
	[172.17.192.35])
	by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EF8292B
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Sat,  1 Apr 2017 18:42:53 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-ua0-f182.google.com (mail-ua0-f182.google.com
	[209.85.217.182])
	by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C80AF297
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Sat,  1 Apr 2017 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-ua0-f182.google.com with SMTP id d64so10556438uad.2
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Sat, 01 Apr 2017 11:42:52 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
	h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to
	:cc; bh=vdnRqLgL/Mwg+BNXLqxU6mcgya4Rl5ixgZQkJQhf12s=;
	b=Mc4GyWb8tPM7VtS0nZfuQEkJXFpTjprW4xvBQIEpQsfoTkGiLIj/6w8fzh1Y9AUgn+
	bpj9gbZMIfsnmgou0ztnEKjNX91So/hXQBlU1yKufvIvNFS/iOD8+skxGjDzhwCTnl5g
	VRtMyL8cKJOKLoOD3HEcemlJz+gdgdmYWs8fkSe+5w3OTd/wE8fTLCStj+BmtK+bBikT
	f+ZnQV0xTj0Xbvra84llR+3PwsHcTMhe3V1GK7g4IJOI1ONMtSFBG7K396Tsa3iX0YDh
	Vvuj3hksznusYL7GStSX6R+xRdZ+fFlATDu+h9OTOnpGRNl0LxXM8ndrPBV21tZs13m1
	LixA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
	h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date
	:message-id:subject:to:cc;
	bh=vdnRqLgL/Mwg+BNXLqxU6mcgya4Rl5ixgZQkJQhf12s=;
	b=o9LEDbW56KlYC33US0u/0OPxQFjUumfs1dLAjkR3i1oTqfKYAWqNC1c646OkjBWLB0
	QpBcSrRfTH290KAgk1ZbJSVL3R12d/afXQPFSqgpaRZqaJQvjo+A9RTjg6W/fdqQMp0u
	DrlzgL6ONCgoXBv0QawUr0eyAzq/BTnl1kcDS31avunXtMnWLcyLj3HUrBSgqEe5aqyg
	0GRyVXkmQ2iFsCa013OIUCYClWk2YQ8tkLw7cW15AFRswxBnET4A0l9+qi25iL7zIkSf
	rKHC/dO0IX4XyHbhEgrtb6kG9amR9hUpeC0OV9T/kgW2rGnz8i9PCMDuUy+sZGCpvKAZ
	Exng==
X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H3EayLiYeKDtlFqhZvbMYl1Zh/fViX7KMPhQ+EAWoZugFNzKGXuU23u/eiD6OwXBlrlt5pFRjLC1R0qUg==
X-Received: by 10.176.4.40 with SMTP id 37mr5009680uav.58.1491072171870; Sat,
	01 Apr 2017 11:42:51 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.31.157.143 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:42:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.31.157.143 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:42:50 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAD1TkXusCe-O3CGQkXyRw_m3sXS9grGxMqkMk8dOvFNXeV5zGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABerxhFY8NoA6sSiz1oZ=01Di8n9+QR1xE6NNtxvm=Ov1bGhWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9eb001f8-7623-3c79-41bb-7ed6e45b43ae@voskuil.org>
	<CAD1TkXtQ8d-yBPtGfzA8E0XMv9vR3Qc0xawpwE6yJgzRH-t5ug@mail.gmail.com>
	<2a2b6fc0-f800-2646-55b3-1501cb5d5a30@voskuil.org>
	<CAD1TkXusCe-O3CGQkXyRw_m3sXS9grGxMqkMk8dOvFNXeV5zGQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Jared Lee Richardson <jaredr26@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:42:50 -0700
Message-ID: <CAD1TkXu7EaLP4cYg+2hUBahqk82ZfxEQ62-p9D3DQbJO70vZBQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c06b71623925e054c1f4b2f
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
	DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,FREEMAIL_FROM,
	HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_OBFUSCATE_10_20, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
	smtp1.linux-foundation.org
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 18:44:51 +0000
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Hard fork proposal from last week's meeting
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 18:42:53 -0000

--94eb2c06b71623925e054c1f4b2f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

That's a quoted general statement that is highly subjective, not a
description of an attack.  If you can't articulate a specific attack vector
that we're defending against, such a defense has no value.

On Apr 1, 2017 12:41 AM, "Eric Voskuil" <eric@voskuil.org> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 03/31/2017 11:18 PM, Jared Lee Richardson wrote:
>> If a typical personal computer cannot run a node there is no
>> security.
>
> If you can't describe an attack that is made possible when typical
> personal computers can't run nodes, this kind of logic has no place
> in this discussion.

"Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally
controlled networks..."

e
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJY31m0AAoJEDzYwH8LXOFOayIH/0DcWukHZUVTV8952mkWnqjS
RCM8StQOuuTQ/2elvKoZa/nEv1PvpOQEO/AxJDEdIKOqjdXoc/QdZT/Qj834yyFi
mmNLm3x8voO7rTFEVtBrXQ4VYO7Zj5gVy6nRyMrhSGtzg4XqYiyGVoijiumfXOvq
ejLwyWJEf8klBwegIPkX4XX6UYjNyBt+E32Je7NxUbi54EPDRszWpEGGKfJrWiCQ
JO2jqB3O2RbMd0J1onBt2AGsjeQSE3HO0EBQSkdGQZ7PVSdE3I49uT2aAaScnPOt
ymbNz4QtlUWWpUgEI6VSjxHCGjX4+Vrn3HLRwjLe4nS2EX3mOVNY8MHMvbCeAuY=
=tD9k
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--94eb2c06b71623925e054c1f4b2f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto"><div>That&#39;s a quoted general statement that is highly=
 subjective, not a description of an attack.=C2=A0 If you can&#39;t articul=
ate a specific attack vector that we&#39;re defending against, such a defen=
se has no value.<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e">On Apr 1, 2017 12:41 AM, &quot;Eric Voskuil&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
eric@voskuil.org">eric@voskuil.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><=
blockquote class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"quoted-text">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED ME=
SSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA256<br>
<br>
</div><div class=3D"quoted-text">On 03/31/2017 11:18 PM, Jared Lee Richards=
on wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; If a typical personal computer cannot run a node there is no<br>
&gt;&gt; security.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If you can&#39;t describe an attack that is made possible when typical=
<br>
&gt; personal computers can&#39;t run nodes, this kind of logic has no plac=
e<br>
&gt; in this discussion.<br>
<br>
</div>&quot;Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally<br=
>
controlled networks...&quot;<br>
<div class=3D"quoted-text"><br>
e<br>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)<br>
<br>
</div>iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJY31m0AAoJEDzYwH<wbr>8LXOFOayIH/<wbr>0DcWukHZUVTV8952mk=
WnqjS<br>
RCM8StQOuuTQ/2elvKoZa/<wbr>nEv1PvpOQEO/AxJDEdIKOqjdXoc/<wbr>QdZT/Qj834yyFi<=
br>
mmNLm3x8voO7rTFEVtBrXQ4VYO7Zj5<wbr>gVy6nRyMrhSGtzg4XqYiyGVoijiumf<wbr>XOvq<=
br>
ejLwyWJEf8klBwegIPkX4XX6UYjNyB<wbr>t+<wbr>E32Je7NxUbi54EPDRszWpEGGKfJrWi<wb=
r>CQ<br>
JO2jqB3O2RbMd0J1onBt2AGsjeQSE3<wbr>HO0EBQSkdGQZ7PVSdE3I49uT2aAaSc<wbr>nPOt<=
br>
ymbNz4QtlUWWpUgEI6VSjxHCGjX4+<wbr>Vrn3HLRwjLe4nS2EX3mOVNY8MHMvbC<wbr>eAuY=
=3D<br>
=3DtD9k<br>
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--94eb2c06b71623925e054c1f4b2f--