From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from silver.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10826C0051 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:16:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by silver.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA72820396 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:16:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from silver.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2ybSfKwQXflA for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:16:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by silver.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06D2D20379 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:16:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ej1-f43.google.com (mail-ej1-f43.google.com [209.85.218.43]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as jlrubin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 08JGGbjU027646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 12:16:38 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-f43.google.com with SMTP id z22so12087405ejl.7 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:16:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533GqkICokW1FrfBTGMdb1xrCZhgUSefIRvI0RQeJPSjCTFnScbP 5fmrgPQOmy7ijXeXLfg1wq3qWTqtXwviaXpJ2lU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxOAnQzVkirOvcQcFD1a/aOgdSaGdI6Ok8B/o4YapLCuQuvQLXhr22EwJaEF3YvYLH6Lpc0z0Fg/HiO+NuAk50= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:d936:: with SMTP id rn22mr42130587ejb.4.1600532197301; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:16:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jeremy Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:16:25 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: lists@coryfields.com, adam.ficsor73@gmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000012620f05afacf1b8" Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Replacement for RBF and CPFP: Non-Destructive TXID Dependencies for Fee Sponsoring X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:16:42 -0000 --00000000000012620f05afacf1b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Cory! Thanks for taking a look. CC nopara as I think your questions are the same. I think there are a few reason we won't see functionally worse privacy: 1. RBF/CPFP may require the use of an external to the original transaction to pay sufficient fee. 2. RBF/CPFP may leak which address was the change and which was the payment. In addition, I think there is a benefit in that: 1. RBF/CPFP requires access to the keys in the same 'security zone' as the payment you made (e.g., if it's a multi-sig to multi-sig requires m of N to cpfp/or RBF, whereas sponsors could be anyone). 2. Sponsors can be a fully separate arbitrary wallet. 3. You can continually coinjoin the funds in your fee-paying wallet without tainting your main funds. 4. You can keep those funds in a lightning channel and pay your fees via loop outs. --00000000000012620f05afacf1b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Cory!

T= hanks for taking a look. CC nopara as I think your questions are the same.<= /div>

I think there are a few reason we won't see functionally wo= rse privacy:

1. RBF/CPFP may require the use of an external to= the original transaction to pay sufficient fee.
2. RBF/CPFP may leak which address was the change and which = was the payment.

In addition, I think there is a benefit in tha= t:

1. RBF/CPFP requires access to the keys in the same 'sec= urity zone' as the payment you made (e.g., if it's a multi-sig to m= ulti-sig requires m of N to cpfp/or RBF, whereas sponsors could be anyone).=
2. Sponsors can be a fully separa= te arbitrary wallet.
3. You ca= n continually coinjoin the funds in your fee-paying wallet without tainting= your main funds.
4. You can keep = those funds in a lightning channel and pay your fees via loop outs.



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