From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 360C415 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:08:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ot1-f43.google.com (mail-ot1-f43.google.com [209.85.210.43]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF2877C for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:08:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot1-f43.google.com with SMTP id 40so9609500oth.4 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 13:08:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=TIgXP6Bj8N1DaI4mQGt3+TSwbnE3VeqS2+/TZ1b7FVg=; b=uvWwAOS/UVj5ksUVhD7W5CRDa3xkEXf0nAf5sT9RamXLlXW4UZytZesVa+GVJkcxdO hnzJIGJ7OA+4mBzQTYN3ldj2lehgC66BGjkWYc8lV/odGqj5olzGOIi0AD2L0Wz7M1um HgWhHL9OWwb2U9VlIeSD+whxVKP0BPcojgrK7HAIovx9+DwHEyerAydrfvkx74gyP7YF UjMDM6EcMnsGiw40LltOH9tjHfymao8YXxGQls2QLlRk32euovPN4nilAWGZWCsOLBvU 4wtRy85JvPs4ykHLofM6k9iMyfy3/9JVmgEUAExU8CtKQu7fyDgjF6EHofOCOXgLKZJh 17Uw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=TIgXP6Bj8N1DaI4mQGt3+TSwbnE3VeqS2+/TZ1b7FVg=; b=NRDi1psuMIRFv+3AE3xzG20Mxx7cU4jmZ/gAd9lAQ0u+VvSf9BuuuChFKkcho0rtOE i4Sn7w86NpDO4l0HpXVRm3KFBDVvvaarCQRBxS3Rh/syjV/sOVD2icJ1kJQG0p0tCNH2 kA259l02wg6vawY1Jib4gjludqtZjQbRQErH/7VhiZfDUbMV/i6dbcgb0W8mKMlOoLUN t053scwrRmRiVCmwwYujjvt3efOkUYceENmFvVt4Mc10to97fW8UXZGUkVjU+MAVZImk G+E5DGh7l8RHb1JBKn4vt3ryfU8YImEzgMvXMsm9hvgIqs8uyRlXvCx5U/nOGPGreyCf lGbA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcGmkPr/qWWzKnATKlDZL2UW+p93HaEJ9+iR/oLS6DuVTrvoyvL 3CeMBfo/NVVpDA2mgR01QuEMTvY1rWKh7ty8Efg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN4QWKKKSFdHtzt39pFGoMrAy02te1sVa781jpCHqWbWSBHcDmlW/gKOOxPcWLWE7eQeW+c3UVAfigZGCyqS108= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:37f5:: with SMTP id x108mr7029879otb.76.1545599304907; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 13:08:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <68330522-7e7c-c3b4-99a9-1c68ddb56f23@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <68330522-7e7c-c3b4-99a9-1c68ddb56f23@gmail.com> From: Jameson Lopp Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:08:13 -0500 Message-ID: To: Aymeric Vitte , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000088c209057db6e165" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:51:01 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP39 seeds X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:08:26 -0000 --00000000000088c209057db6e165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I believe it would depend upon the entropy used for the seed, as that would affect how many bits the checksum represents. https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki#Generating_the_mnemonic So for a 24 word / 256 bit mnemonic the checksum is 8 bits, thus there are 8 valid checksums and if you picked a random checksum from the wordlist of 2048 words you'd have a 1 in 256 chance of picking a valid one. On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 1:44 PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Has anybody already looked at this: given N randomly chosen words > belonging to a BIP39 2048 words dictionary, what is the probability to > get a "valid" BIP39 seed (ie with the right checksum)? > > The result looks (very) surprising to me and might have some use cases, > just would like to know if this topic has already been discussed before > going further > > -- > Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet > Bitcoin transactions made simple: > https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions > Zcash wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets > Bitcoin wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets > Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist > Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass > Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: > http://torrent-live.org > Peersm : http://www.peersm.com > torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live > node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor > GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --00000000000088c209057db6e165 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe it would depend upon the entrop= y used for the seed, as that would affect how many bits the checksum repres= ents.=C2=A0https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/mas= ter/bip-0039.mediawiki#Generating_the_mnemonic
So for a 24 word / 256 bit mnemonic the checksum is 8 bits, th= us there are 8 valid checksums and if you picked a random checksum from the= wordlist of 2048 words you'd have a 1 in 256 chance of picking a valid= one.

On Sun, De= c 23, 2018 at 1:44 PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org= > wrote:
= Has anybody already looked at this: given N randomly chosen words
belonging to a BIP39 2048 words dictionary, what is the probability to
get a "valid" BIP39 seed (ie with the right checksum)?

The result looks (very) surprising to me and might have some use cases,
just would like to know if this topic has already been discussed before
going further

--
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Aym= s/bitcoin-transactions
Zcash wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallet= s
Bitcoin wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-= wallets
Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist<= br> Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.org
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms

_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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