From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 384E9A80 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:02:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ot0-f181.google.com (mail-ot0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A15BE149 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:02:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot0-f181.google.com with SMTP id d44so14175262otd.12 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:02:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=n4AYjcC8O7TkZc0Su1fgyUAwwctYyWulb10EkzSMgEQ=; b=gWFcf9jmri7hBzDHXDMTm820OBGTOAj9Bjch5HsLCYodY4Egqq6nd6jurjBu/AUVe6 XixoFeMp47r5NMgnh3hGw8uzPjwPvao76HuN2k02w9WVhpuDtfMT7hAwiyNazVVBm/qa Ea7lFbwqy+nJof8wtqpUEafFpTfgWd8aElgxEpqPEZ85+145eCocU55duM7pMExpOl8h CePelh0t+aSI6sfkbxaLzwYsHQw3XIwDjR1TFLOExTgxC+Ak3v/Eety6wq6Pz+U9mjTL qpWtopCfxbKnrnmL8LbF365IBrs5b8Jt5/h+0e5m4+DPeyW+xHvw8OKMG2pScZu9Ix3U j0zQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=n4AYjcC8O7TkZc0Su1fgyUAwwctYyWulb10EkzSMgEQ=; b=j9qzoXOosT7TsmbmdUL7Fcar6iDEtLMYNUs0b/SMyDWBcvMKzr0aA0E8/g99rkHQe2 AIXhEPhqihr/PwnAbQm1b+iRym3VFuaukBWp5Pu88hMJi66ZDlwwF+j07TMy2KGqrgHG y+wanTZwHQyMgftoWh1kiyNwxoE18j/wc8LCzVwBKy2NRKTuzBqKUWt3Jp9M0f/69Ank WK+8u1pyC9V32zyTMCqpfFCJk65ubbVMwjo3iilMTVKfPtPvXpQz0qsDhSWfVj2P74of PERfxggflqrruh/xfHn1luIhvq1YfzFlUI838ODkSXuzvWojYAo3qy2u8M4DW/nO4LTD MFEg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJBeQT8yzVfzv5DaMVvey01NZdDWJHiUrTrjwLPHElLGnKEj9Rz 661QW8G92itjQZoZfVGL1yaZdRt3kW221fKG4wM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBosMmNA2bM0I6gwTv9i9tE+0F0Fb2PAQxpUwlnjYKlpdrbrllxnMFXzIfRkYhqu901jKQm/BkOw0Fqwlvvrk2sk= X-Received: by 10.157.2.106 with SMTP id 97mr6357006otb.49.1513893757746; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:02:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.74.82.132 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 14:02:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Jameson Lopp Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 17:02:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: Melvin Carvalho , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c046052a884ac0560e0db9a" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, URIBL_RED autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Total fees have almost crossed the block reward X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:02:39 -0000 --94eb2c046052a884ac0560e0db9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'd hope that the incentives are in place to encourage high volume senders to be more efficient in their use of block space by batching transactions and implementing SegWit, though this may not be the case for providers that pass transaction fees along to their users. We've been trying to be more proactive about outreach regarding efficient use of block space to our own customers at BitGo - when we break down the cost savings of implementing a new technique, it generally helps to hasten their adoption. I suspect that in many cases this is an issue of education - we should be more proactive in calling out inefficient uses of block space. Good resources to bookmark and share: https://bitcointechtalk.com/saving-up-to-80-on-bitcoin-transaction-fees-by-batching-payments-4147ab7009fb https://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-transaction-fees-a9e24c788598 - Jameson On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > I asked adam back at hcpp how the block chain would be secured in the long > term, once the reward goes away. The base idea has always been that fees > would replace the block reward. > > At that time fees were approximately 10% of the block reward, but have now > reached 45%, with 50% potentially being crossed soon > > https://fork.lol/reward/feepct > > While this bodes well for the long term security of the coin, I think > there is some legitimate concern that the fee per tx is prohibitive for > some use cases, at this point in the adoption curve. > > Observations of segwit adoption show around 10% at this point > > http://segwit.party/charts/ > > Watching the mempool shows that the congestion is at a peak, though it's > quite possible this will come down over the long weekend. I wonder if this > is of concern to some. > > https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/more/#24h > > I thought these data points may be of interest and are mainly FYI. Though > if further discussion is deemed appropriate, it would be interesting to > hear thoughts. > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --94eb2c046052a884ac0560e0db9a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd hope that the incentives are in place to encourage= high volume senders to be more efficient in their use of block space by ba= tching transactions and implementing SegWit, though this may not be the cas= e for providers that pass transaction fees along to their users.

We've been trying to be more proactive about outreach regardin= g efficient use of block space to our own customers at BitGo - when we brea= k down the cost savings of implementing a new technique, it generally helps= to hasten their adoption. I suspect that in many cases this is an issue of= education - we should be more proactive in calling out inefficient uses of= block space.

Good resources to bookmark and share= :



On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:30 P= M, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
I asked adam back at hcpp how th= e block chain would be secured in the long term, once the reward goes away.= =C2=A0 The base idea has always been that fees would replace the block rewa= rd.

At that time fees were approximately 10% of the block rewa= rd, but have now reached 45%, with 50% potentially being crossed soon
https://fork= .lol/reward/feepct

While this bodes well for the long term= security of the coin, I think there is some legitimate concern that the fe= e per tx is prohibitive for some use cases, at this point in the adoption c= urve.

Observations of segwit adoption show around 10% at this = point

http= ://segwit.party/charts/

Watching the mempool shows that th= e congestion is at a peak, though it's quite possible this will come do= wn over the long weekend.=C2=A0 I wonder if this is of concern to some.
=
https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/more/#24h

I thought these data points may be of interest and are mainly FYI.=C2=A0 = Though if further discussion is deemed appropriate, it would be interesting= to hear thoughts.

_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org= /mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


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