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[2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-608b49f6b93si44936a12.5.2025.06.13.04.08.21 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Jun 2025 04:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jameson.lopp@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12a as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12a; Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-552206ac67aso2012761e87.2 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2025 04:08:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCV5WezG0fv2sglNN/IDh2m7ZY33cq7tSAAV3vvXQ1wy6WLcgtvgiKuUh3TqSVKODr5J+VfNlR+6wyQv@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctTHhp8CLtqUMR4Vtone5H/aUJf+Sp/M6cgcHRS1B3ZAzmyN7EOSrbLEQGm5x7 998VAToNhxZ56rYgA/gr0qAhnO0z7UrWRq3mF06cjtSbZOj+YeAksC3lHzBs6TDX2We5nOu5F4d h8a+7dBgpWY03uy0SjwsnOX+P+Mbd14UakY1DXomGTO7OKLJpuPtXKxg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:33ca:b0:553:a3ed:f2ee with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-553af93cf17mr673300e87.13.1749812899958; Fri, 13 Jun 2025 04:08:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <46349b6c-ccec-4378-8721-aecec22752e7@mattcorallo.com> <8d158e3d-b3cc-44b6-b71b-ab2e733c047c@mattcorallo.com> In-Reply-To: From: Jameson Lopp Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2025 07:08:07 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AX0GCFtL9iWC3fkwUJnOkhXf32sUTGgbN9IbPUXdBNqn8iDFrJg1kS2A4Pn0gqg Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] CTV + CSFS: a letter To: Matt Corallo Cc: Andrew Poelstra , Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000053538a06377210c4" X-Original-Sender: jameson.lopp@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=Vrtc306j; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jameson.lopp@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jameson.lopp@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --00000000000053538a06377210c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Unlike a generic "We Want Things" sign-on letter, individual messages indicating desire to utilize features is way more compelling. Then I submit my essay from 2 years ago ( https://blog.casa.io/why-bitcoin-needs-covenants/) and will quote myself: "There are clearly a LOT of use cases that could potentially be unlocked with the right kind of covenant implementation. Personally, having spent 8 years working on high security multi-signature wallets, I'm most interested in vaults. I believe the value they offer is quite straightforward and is applicable to every single self-custody bitcoin user, regardless of what type of wallet they are running." - Jameson On Thu, Jun 12, 2025 at 6:54=E2=80=AFPM Matt Corallo wrote: > To be fair to James, in my (luckily rather brief) experience with > Bitcoin-consensus-letter-writing, > its nearly impossible to forge a statement that everyone agrees to that i= s > consistently interpreted. > > Matt > > On 6/12/25 3:51 PM, Andrew Poelstra wrote: > > Le Thu, Jun 12, 2025 at 02:38:13PM -0400, James O'Beirne a =C3=A9crit : > >> > >> As the person who coordinated the letter, I can say that this is not a= n > >> accurate characterization of the signers' intent. Everyone who signed > >> explicitly wants to see the imminent review, integration, and activati= on > >> planning for CTV+CSFS specifically. The letter is intentionally concis= e > to > >> make sure there are no misunderstandings about that. > >> > >> I spoke to each person on the original list of signatories who either > did > >> (or didn't) sign and this was made very clear. Some people didn't sign > as a > >> result of what the letter says. > >> > > > > The letter asks Core to "prioritize the review and integration" on an > > accelerated timeline, and that this will "allow" for "activation > planning". > > > > Early drafts of the letter did ask for actual integration and even > > activation, but I did not sign any of those early drafts. It was not > > until the language was weakened to be about priorities and planning (an= d > > to be a "respectful ask" rather some sort of demand) that I signed on. > > > > > > The letter is concise but unfortunately I think Matt is correct that it > > offers a broad range of interpretations, even among the signers. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/f8b37a59-0897-40df-a08e-7812= c806a716%40mattcorallo.com > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CADL_X_fxwKLdst9tYQqabUsJgu47xhCbwpmyq97ZB-SLWQC9Xw%40mail.gmail.com. --00000000000053538a06377210c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Unlike a generic "We Want Things" sign-on l= etter,=C2=A0individual messages indicating desire to utilize features is wa= y more compelling.

Then I submit my essay from 2 years a= go (https://b= log.casa.io/why-bitcoin-needs-covenants/) and will quote myself:
<= div>
"There are clearly a LOT of use cases that could po= tentially be unlocked with the right kind of covenant implementation. Perso= nally, having spent 8 years working on high security multi-signature wallet= s, I'm most interested in vaults. I believe the value they offer is qui= te straightforward and is applicable to every single self-custody bitcoin u= ser, regardless of what type of wallet they are running."
- Jameson

On Thu, Jun 12, 2025 at 6= :54=E2=80=AFPM Matt Corallo <lf-lists@mattcorallo.com> wrote:
To be fair to James, in my (luckily rather brief) = experience with Bitcoin-consensus-letter-writing,
its nearly impossible to forge a statement that everyone agrees to that is = consistently interpreted.

Matt

On 6/12/25 3:51 PM, Andrew Poelstra wrote:
> Le Thu, Jun 12, 2025 at 02:38:13PM -0400, James O'Beirne a =C3=A9c= rit :
>>
>> As the person who coordinated the letter, I can say that this is n= ot an
>> accurate characterization of the signers' intent. Everyone who= signed
>> explicitly wants to see the imminent review, integration, and acti= vation
>> planning for CTV+CSFS specifically. The letter is intentionally co= ncise to
>> make sure there are no misunderstandings about that.
>>
>> I spoke to each person on the original list of signatories who eit= her did
>> (or didn't) sign and this was made very clear. Some people did= n't sign as a
>> result of what the letter says.
>>
>
> The letter asks Core to "prioritize the review and integration&qu= ot; on an
> accelerated timeline, and that this will "allow" for "a= ctivation planning".
>
> Early drafts of the letter did ask for actual integration and even
> activation, but I did not sign any of those early drafts. It was not > until the language was weakened to be about priorities and planning (a= nd
> to be a "respectful ask" rather some sort of demand) that I = signed on.
>
>
> The letter is concise but unfortunately I think Matt is correct that i= t
> offers a broad range of interpretations, even among the signers.
>
>

--
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To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/f= 8b37a59-0897-40df-a08e-7812c806a716%40mattcorallo.com.

--
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