Re: [bitcoin-dev] Boost Bitcoin circulation, Million Transactions Per Second with stronger privacy

From: James Hilliard <james.hilliard1@gmail.com>
To: raymo@riseup.net,
	 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Boost Bitcoin circulation, Million Transactions Per Second with stronger privacy
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 02:23:00 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CADvTj4rD90A7FeBw8T_SvDupm0z7CfuXKZ2S=hR0A8CFv0-bSg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <c2e7b6336190c5dae6383abb284c335b@riseup.net>

On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 2:09 AM raymo via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> Hi ZmnSCPxj,
>
> Why you get the signal “trust the Gazin wallet”?
> Sabu is a protocol and the Gazin wallet will be an implementation of
> that protocol. We will implement it in react-native language to support
> both Android and iPhone. Of course it will be open source and GPL3.
> Here is the repository and yet is empty :)
> https://github.com/raymaot/Gazin
>
> I wonder why you do not look carefully into the proposal! IMHO the Sabu
> will be far better than Lightning.
> Can’t you see the fact that in Sabu you do not need open and close
> channels ever? Can you imagine only this feature how dramatically
> decrease the transactions cost and how increase the distribution of
> nodes and improve privacy level? it makes every mobile wallet act like a
> lightning network.
> Did you note the fact that in Sabu protocol there is no routing? And the
> only people knew about a transaction are issuer and creditor? No one
> else won’t be aware of transactions and million transactions per second
> can be sent and received and repeal dynamically without any footprint on
> any DLT?
>
> The English is not my mother language and probably my paper is not a
> smooth and easy to read paper, but these are not good excuse to not even
> reading a technical paper carefully and before understanding it or at
> least trying to understanding it start to complaining.

Considering that you have not effectively addressed any of the inaccurate
assumptions made regarding how mining works that I pointed out earlier
I assume your proposal is not viable in practice.

See:
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-June/019091.html

>
> > All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust assumption
> No, All the benefits my scheme claims, are derived from economically
> rational decision of both issuer and creditors.
>
> Regards
> Raymo
>
>
>
> On 2021-06-28 05:20, ZmnSCPxj wrote:
> > Good morning Raymo,
> >
> >>
> >> It looks you already missed the entire design of Sabu and its
> >> restrictions. First of all, the Gazin wallet always controls the Sabu
> >> restrictions for every transaction in order to consider it as a valid
> >> transaction in a valid deal. That is, the creditor wallet controls the
> >> MT and GT in first place.
> >
> > Stop right there.
> >
> > From the above, what I get is, "trust the Gazin wallet".
> > Thus, the suggestion to just use Coinbase.
> > At least it has existed longer and has more current users that trust
> > it, rather than this Gazin thing.
> >
> >
> > Is Gazin open-source?
> >
> > * If Gazin is open-source, I could download the source code, make a
> > local copy that gives me a separate copy of the keys, and use the keys
> > to sign any transaction I want.
> > * If Gazin is not open-source, then why should I trust the Gazin
> > wallet until my incoming funds to an open-source wallet I control have
> > been confirmed deeply?
> >
> > Lightning is still superior because:
> >
> > * It can be open-sourced completely and even though I have keys to my
> > onchain funds, I *still* cannot steal the funds of my counterparty.
> > * Even if I connect my open-source node to a node with a closed-source
> > implementation, I know I can rely on receives from that node without
> > waiting for the transaction to be confirmed deeply.
> >
> >
> > All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust
> > assumption, which is uninteresting, we already have those, they are
> > called custodial wallets.
> > Lightning allows for non-custodiality while achieving high global TPS
> > and low fees.
> > And a central idea of Lightning is the requirement to use an n-of-n to
> > form smaller sub-moneys from the global money.
> >
> > Regards,
> > ZmnSCPxj
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