From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E94EACB for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 02:27:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-qk0-f175.google.com (mail-qk0-f175.google.com [209.85.220.175]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9852EF2 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 02:27:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qkhu186 with SMTP id u186so87925823qkh.0 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 19:27:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=nLuGlUMCEHRVayoKcm84cJAqri1b10swAGjwf1q0vFs=; b=PyzMxY6wHYAqwqG6/svyTBVSFyTfZ4YG9oVPw/VP/3k6meGH0e3OvQWyxA8O1ynS6B B/IQhoOJRHYKZgFADT3huEfccmDySpT3WlbpjIu79Xs0BSIvMQjdERBCtBjkQQTJQWCL kCSZ76U3eYJt2sAysY34dIiiUCcodX8VwTdHHtX5oWg2ucbqafBJ5R5MEU+/xRRtjn/w wFyHHLsGTzZknG0jcvPx791cVU1R4eFju7mMeCI5io6gf9GvlNAdBylGhLMZ1/gyv2V+ lI3y+ymNtABoKT6q7cPQEJZKx/jtcBUGru/y9IQuEcRQdZPZUHU2rw5Lva9D51nqmCqk cGfw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.55.16.161 with SMTP id 33mr26935297qkq.53.1435544826792; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 19:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.184.130 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 19:27:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 19:27:06 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Warren Togami Jr." To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113b0b7875d0e005199ed37e X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, TRACKER_ID,URIBL_BLACK autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Mailing List Administrivia - GPG, Archives, Breakage, TODO, mirrors, etc X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 02:27:12 -0000 --001a113b0b7875d0e005199ed37e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 June 28th, 2015 Mailman's obscure_addresses option is now disabled. It has been pretty useless as a spam mitigation measure anyway. This is a test message to see if mailman continues to break --clearsign GPG signatures for messages that contain an e-mail address like test@example.com . -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQQcBAEBCAAGBQJVkKy7AAoJELEXnrc0fcENmiIf/1Qgb/XFDmGl5RsZnMWh+kCX EBjT/ouufgURTrOt6XPhwnxJAYMKPtobg4MvjosqKFNKzyz3Io9TxkWXFXFLajLt uZ/RPck0b6qYPXW02m6on1Zj8VIKrREtm4CEH/2q7iHkjsWIHULo+K6emrJQtIOs DzhUEniPPVDJVIq2pZJGKHq87ydmnFMYhXjzCu2e0N7CBFw/uxtUEsvkd0uuognm YVjnrCjS8CLzNgEkx8z6R1WWz7psDQeLr+d8BP/6TVrgEOaeX4pAy9mhqdPjGutV C6X3SyMlSA/PDJFqzT5Upe4UKwKWGq7AOBz7OpzpYIqJ69NKsIjCgh+t6qCisDZO O3XFUIidmKZsWE422InFLhUtqzwZHq56J/eKKiYz53BSYtTOPIs4+RPlm1Gzs7gP cEqoDYobdlT2H1vCvNficcbH5nWmooErUxT06tXjGqfPHlm+OVuOyVTwuin+gD5H winqtNlkSCbG1MjhUoLEJVxLHP7t6i5e6EKPQrvP0XycKuO2PMlVkYYFBGMKEFF/ sL68wyV/0PzGRA7ggcBmcOGHC7ys2sOroLZCWNDnOrQnRFHvQgDCQpj3uMFMO7yf 8E+0CIKO0vB/Ljxse51+s/NZTX8uTZu525+hSG8cuLY1FTl5Zk3oRH1HGUJ9wbWh Hjx6827uh543+AHWgBwEpQ/8LkSlc0UN6txNmYn4DJgEksqP80iaPkvXAEesSUJ8 OtAPrWOMZXcSsp7HZkDXuJyMUerGvZcdIVvVNsLOWLWa2c0kyDdxubGflhGN/Hkq 67pJ5J/aeraw7BdfRi78CUWYXpVBlMaQ60jT2LV9XQxsqSnZb3+VgN9vyvQi/gih enr+l8r4esM7TOsGYHMWbQkHgnm/wOMiMc56xlqeIi/+cRuJF3Mg5LnbqIUU1Ox0 S+luGASWg1R2yU4n0EWQ5sx1dmslgvJe6lDKlQXEX4e4d5F0vhnyFiDVhChMCpGv ALK8MiUZGD2y9fIPB+Yypq7mH9NiQwQIJtpbVgVd2pBEl0XWkbs6F5GNq90ChE7x hWiyu2N/iug2r7zKt5KtZob9hIljQ6N/HAk+O1lLPUktX5HBt8X+KHyX22GMLIAu g4tWk2P7R0Sh2rYSd43S3CMF01eaGI2oWU0rj2KtG1HqQMVOIVjdxYR3tpmC69Tb MyCq7xe+zOcAiWkAeb1cJjgahrnDBR663zSsqZVnAyG9GQVvPY6fZKxYoY2B+xgP tEi8FTL3ag0PbdUJF8SQugx+R3HNBS+r1AGgOUEBtrrH9IqBAaOf3N+rMFLUl/HW ypTs5fj6A49CkncmQQGcyj3BwlEjhr4wF59Bpxn/KTwT5H2Sdu1QEuB2G+gwqYs= =bOwk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > Generally agreed w/ all this. > > To preserve digital signatures now and in the future, and make mbox > archives actually useful, a minimum modification policy is needed. > > > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 3:21 PM, grarpamp wrote: > >> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:14 PM, Frank Flores wrote: >> > If you're going to go through the trouble of signing your public emails >> ... >> >> ... then you should also demand that the official archives of your >> favorite lists preserve them and their verifiability in the supposedly >> canonical reference "mbox" format that they distribute. >> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Wladimir J. van der Laan >> wrote: >> > Subject: [bitcoin-dev] New GPG signing key for Bitcoin Core binary >> releases >> >> >> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009045.html >> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz >> >> As you can clearly see, both the HTML archives and the "mbox" >> archives have corrupted this message, it will not verify. Do not >> try to say this case is trivial, the problem itself is not trivial, >> it's gratuitous, and it applies to all matching messages... text, >> code, binary inline... that's dangerous. >> >> Do not try to say this corruption prevents spam, it does not. >> Spammers simply subscribe to the list and harvest everything >> efficiently in realtime... no webcrawling overhead, no stale >> addresses. Obfuscation is futile. >> >> This misfeature needs to be disabled. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Warren Togami Jr. >> wrote: >> > archives will be exported >> > and imported into the new list server >> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder >> wrote: >> > I'm not sure if anyone has submitted a request for gmane >> >> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 5:35 PM, s7r wrote: >> > Do we have all the archives imported? I run several full nodes and >> > mirrors for open source projects, if you think it's useful, I can >> > provide a mirror for the mail list archives. >> >> Yes... these other mirrors, archives, analysis, journalism, and >> interfaces are useful. However, as it is now, there are no useful >> authoritative sources for them to seed from... they're all corrupt. >> And any subscribed realtime sources, though nice, are subject to >> downtime, administrative and other unrecoverable gaps. Your mirror >> project is a fine idea, you should demand that the pristine historical >> sources be made publicly available. Not just for you, but for everyone. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, grarpamp wrote: >> > ... >> >> As before, the current "mbox" archives are broken and not useful... >> >> a) They corrupt message data, messages are unverifiable, another >> example... >> >> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009132.html >> >> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz >> b) They are missing the minimum set of original headers necessary >> for fully replyable, threadable, sortable, searchable, context >> preserving and direct use by users MUA's in their local environment: >> (Date, From, To, Cc, Subject, Message-ID, In-Reply-To, References) >> c) They do not include attachments (patches, signatures, images, crypto, >> data) that are absolutely necessary to the context and archives >> of all lists. Instead they stupidly throw them away to "web links" >> which results not only in uselessness of the so called "mbox" >> version, but in many thousands of needless fetches by archive >> users and indexers. And hours of wasted work attempting to >> postprocess them into usable form. >> Valuable content lost from the "mbox" files this June alone: >> 418 attachment.html >> 106 attachment.sig >> 6 attachment.jpe >> 4 attachment.png >> 2 attachment.bin >> d) There appear to be at least 15 instances of unescaped '^From ' >> in the "mbox". Regeneration with current mailman may fix. One such >> case is here: >> >> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/004245.html >> >> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January.txt.gz >> >> >> >> Please fix all the above mentioned issues by providing the full raw >> archives in regularly updated [gzip/7z] mbox format. The internet >> thanks you :) >> >> Example, compare the "Downloadable version"s here: >> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/ >> https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/ >> https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-February/006820.html >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder >> wrote: >> > Regarding message footers and the subject prefix >> >> Yes, they're also corruptive and space wasting clutter, for and by >> the clueless :( Both of them should be turned off. >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --001a113b0b7875d0e005199ed37e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SH= A256

June 28th, 2015
Mailman's obscu= re_addresses option is now disabled.=C2=A0 It has been pretty useless
=
as a spam mitigation measure anyway.

This is = a test message to see if mailman continues to break --clearsign GPG
signatures for messages that contain an e-mail address like test@example.com.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGN= ATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1

iQQcBAEBCAA= GBQJVkKy7AAoJELEXnrc0fcENmiIf/1Qgb/XFDmGl5RsZnMWh+kCX
EBjT/ouufgU= RTrOt6XPhwnxJAYMKPtobg4MvjosqKFNKzyz3Io9TxkWXFXFLajLt
uZ/RPck0b6q= YPXW02m6on1Zj8VIKrREtm4CEH/2q7iHkjsWIHULo+K6emrJQtIOs
DzhUEniPPVD= JVIq2pZJGKHq87ydmnFMYhXjzCu2e0N7CBFw/uxtUEsvkd0uuognm
YVjnrCjS8CL= zNgEkx8z6R1WWz7psDQeLr+d8BP/6TVrgEOaeX4pAy9mhqdPjGutV
C6X3SyMlSA/= PDJFqzT5Upe4UKwKWGq7AOBz7OpzpYIqJ69NKsIjCgh+t6qCisDZO
O3XFUIidmKZ= sWE422InFLhUtqzwZHq56J/eKKiYz53BSYtTOPIs4+RPlm1Gzs7gP
cEqoDYobdlT= 2H1vCvNficcbH5nWmooErUxT06tXjGqfPHlm+OVuOyVTwuin+gD5H
winqtNlkSCb= G1MjhUoLEJVxLHP7t6i5e6EKPQrvP0XycKuO2PMlVkYYFBGMKEFF/
sL68wyV/0Pz= GRA7ggcBmcOGHC7ys2sOroLZCWNDnOrQnRFHvQgDCQpj3uMFMO7yf
8E+0CIKO0vB= /Ljxse51+s/NZTX8uTZu525+hSG8cuLY1FTl5Zk3oRH1HGUJ9wbWh
Hjx6827uh54= 3+AHWgBwEpQ/8LkSlc0UN6txNmYn4DJgEksqP80iaPkvXAEesSUJ8
OtAPrWOMZXc= Ssp7HZkDXuJyMUerGvZcdIVvVNsLOWLWa2c0kyDdxubGflhGN/Hkq
67pJ5J/aera= w7BdfRi78CUWYXpVBlMaQ60jT2LV9XQxsqSnZb3+VgN9vyvQi/gih
enr+l8r4esM= 7TOsGYHMWbQkHgnm/wOMiMc56xlqeIi/+cRuJF3Mg5LnbqIUU1Ox0
S+luGASWg1R= 2yU4n0EWQ5sx1dmslgvJe6lDKlQXEX4e4d5F0vhnyFiDVhChMCpGv
ALK8MiUZGD2= y9fIPB+Yypq7mH9NiQwQIJtpbVgVd2pBEl0XWkbs6F5GNq90ChE7x
hWiyu2N/iug= 2r7zKt5KtZob9hIljQ6N/HAk+O1lLPUktX5HBt8X+KHyX22GMLIAu
g4tWk2P7R0S= h2rYSd43S3CMF01eaGI2oWU0rj2KtG1HqQMVOIVjdxYR3tpmC69Tb
MyCq7xe+zOc= AiWkAeb1cJjgahrnDBR663zSsqZVnAyG9GQVvPY6fZKxYoY2B+xgP
tEi8FTL3ag0= PbdUJF8SQugx+R3HNBS+r1AGgOUEBtrrH9IqBAaOf3N+rMFLUl/HW
ypTs5fj6A49= CkncmQQGcyj3BwlEjhr4wF59Bpxn/KTwT5H2Sdu1QEuB2G+gwqYs=3D
=3DbOwk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 4:5= 4 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@gmail.com> wrote:
Generally agreed w/ all this.

<= /div>
To preserve digital signatures now and in the future, and make mb= ox archives actually useful, a minimum modification policy is needed.
=



On Sat, Jun 27, = 2015 at 3:21 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:14 PM, Frank Flores = <frankf44@gmail.= com> wrote:
> If you're going to go through the trouble of signing your public e= mails ...

... then you should also demand that the official archives of your
favorite lists preserve them and their verifiability in the supposedly
canonical reference "mbox" format that they distribute.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Wladimir J. van der Laan
<laanwj@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
> Subject: [bitcoin-dev] New GPG signing key for Bitcoin Core binary rel= eases

http://lists.linuxfounda= tion.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009045.html
http://lists.linuxfoundation.= org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz

As you can clearly see, both the HTML archives and the "mbox"
archives have corrupted this message, it will not verify. Do not
try to say this case is trivial, the problem itself is not trivial,
it's gratuitous, and it applies to all matching messages... text,
code, binary inline... that's dangerous.

Do not try to say this corruption prevents spam, it does not.
Spammers simply subscribe to the list and harvest everything
efficiently in realtime... no webcrawling overhead, no stale
addresses. Obfuscation is futile.

This misfeature needs to be disabled.



On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Warren Togami Jr. <wtogami@gmail.com> wrote:
> archives will be exported
> and imported into the new list server

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder <info@andyschroder.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure if anyone has submitted a request for gmane

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 5:35 PM, s7r <s7r@sky-ip.org> wrote:
> Do we have all the archives imported? I run several full nodes and
> mirrors for open source projects, if you think it's useful, I can<= br> > provide a mirror for the mail list archives.

Yes... these other mirrors, archives, analysis, journalism, and
interfaces are useful. However, as it is now, there are no useful
authoritative sources for them to seed from... they're all corrupt.
And any subscribed realtime sources, though nice, are subject to
downtime, administrative and other unrecoverable gaps. Your mirror
project is a fine idea, you should demand that the pristine historical
sources be made publicly available. Not just for you, but for everyone.



On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, grarpamp wrote:
> ...

As before, the current "mbox" archives are broken and not useful.= ..

a) They corrupt message data, messages are unverifiable, another example...=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://list= s.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009132.html
=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://lists.lin= uxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz
b) They are missing the minimum set of original headers necessary
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for fully replyable, threadable, sortable, searchable, context=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0preserving and direct use by users MUA's in their local en= vironment:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Date, From, To, Cc, Subject, Message-ID, In-Reply-To, Referen= ces)
c) They do not include attachments (patches, signatures, images, crypto, =C2=A0 =C2=A0data) that are absolutely necessary to the context and archive= s
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of all lists. Instead they stupidly throw them away to "w= eb links"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0which results not only in uselessness of the so called "m= box"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0version, but in many thousands of needless fetches by archive<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0users and indexers. And hours of wasted work attempting to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0postprocess them into usable form.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Valuable content lost from the "mbox" files this Jun= e alone:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 418 attachment.html
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 106 attachment.sig
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 6 attachment.jpe
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 4 attachment.png
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2 attachment.bin
d) There appear to be at least 15 instances of unescaped '^From ' =C2=A0 =C2=A0in the "mbox". Regeneration with current mailman may= fix. One such
=C2=A0 =C2=A0case is here:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://l= ists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/004245.html=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://lists.= linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January.txt.gz



Please fix all the above mentioned issues by providing the full raw
archives in regularly updated [gzip/7z] mbox format. The internet
thanks you :)

Example, compare the "Downloadable version"s here:
http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bi= tcoin-dev/
https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/
https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cyphe= rpunks/2015-February/006820.html



On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder <info@andyschroder.com> wrote:
> Regarding message footers and the subject prefix

Yes, they're also corruptive and space wasting clutter, for and by
the clueless :( Both of them should be turned off.
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


--001a113b0b7875d0e005199ed37e--