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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::62e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a1e0cc1a2514c-8780b004a40si284973241.2.2025.05.05.07.32.52 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 05 May 2025 07:32:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of bnagaev@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::62e as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62e; Received: by mail-pl1-x62e.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-2260c91576aso39688225ad.3 for ; Mon, 05 May 2025 07:32:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsAm7Tu1ZOu+naAmNz7mtl1bRCxyWOT1Aa6YuHLupmkI/xoc9ks4oI1t5L6PMp XgLuBZYNeSRbquhYDUSn4XzKvJKOUrFURIOQffvGhx+hmRpL8T0FbigbKdXEOcfHDT4lPTMF2j1 rqfWTKwAYdH0Rs3XjNfgoeQw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:dacd:b0:223:f9a4:3fa8 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-22e1ea71944mr116935135ad.19.1746455570993; Mon, 05 May 2025 07:32:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9c50244f-0ca0-40a5-8b76-01ba0d67ec1bn@googlegroups.com> <47454755-7c6c-458b-9545-8c8657b640f1n@googlegroups.com> <39a1d0b6-ecbc-42fa-93aa-3c4f7038aa5en@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <39a1d0b6-ecbc-42fa-93aa-3c4f7038aa5en@googlegroups.com> From: Nagaev Boris Date: Mon, 5 May 2025 11:32:13 -0300 X-Gm-Features: ATxdqUHmvne_-4EzMOkCuVIPPYI9LFmMGIuvu-m-c6aHAVTRrkVFmRBxZsI_55U Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Relax OP_RETURN standardness restrictions To: Greg Maxwell Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: bnagaev@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=jgIbxWKE; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bnagaev@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::62e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bnagaev@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 8:52=E2=80=AFAM Greg Maxwell wr= ote: > > On Monday, May 5, 2025 at 9:27:24=E2=80=AFAM UTC Nagaev Boris wrote: > > > There may also be users today who rely on datacarrier > > behaviour/options without yet realizing they're scheduled for removal. > > > How is it possible that anyone relies on it in a way that it will be a de= triment to them? > > "I run bitcoind because I want to help centralize the network through inc= entives to direct miner submission and slower block propagation, and by enc= ouraging utxo bloating 'fake addresses' outputs! I also like diminishing my= own ability to anticipate the content of the next block using data on my o= wn node" ? :P Were that actually someone's opinion I don't think anyone w= ould regret inviting them to run different software. > > I've been engaging 1:1 with people concerned about the change on forums f= or the last few days and I've haven't yet encountered any clear argument as= to why someone would be harmed by the change. > > Rather, I've found that they've simply been fed an incorrect argument tha= t this change is a product of "bitcoin core" being in favor of non-monetary= (ab)uses of the Bitcoin network, and that it will radically increase the a= mount of it. As far as I can tell this is a total falsehood both respect t= o motivations and credible effects, and allegations otherwise just don't su= rvive the sunlight of a competent counterargument. > My point is that it's hard to foresee every possible use case. We don't know how everyone's infrastructure is set up. Some users might only realize this change affects them after it's already released. And if they do need to adjust something in their workflow, it's a lot easier if they can temporarily restore the previous behavior. Right now, those users aren't speaking up, because they don't yet know they'll be affected. For example, someone might be running a device with very limited resources that can't afford to store the full mempool, but also can't disable it entirely. If they're only monitoring certain types of transactions that never use OP_RETURN, filtering those out is a simple and practical optimization. Or consider a system that pulls mempool transactions via RPC from Bitcoin Core. It might assume certain things about OP_RETURN outputs, maybe it allocates a static buffer for them, and crashes if one turns out to be unexpectedly large. Fixing that kind of issue may take time. Keeping the option available gives operators the flexibility to update their systems without breaking things in the meantime. This isn't about defending every edge case as critical. It's just about recognizing that once an option is removed, anyone who runs into a problem is stuck. Leaving the setting in place for one more release, even in a relaxed or discouraged state, gives people a fair chance to adjust before it disappears. --=20 Best regards, Boris Nagaev --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAFC_Vt6WU37OX5_92rWf5e-aesA%2BRa5Smh69d4P33-0YaGu6YQ%40mail.gmail.com.