Re: [bitcoin-dev] Package Relay Proposal

[Gloria Zhao <gloriajzhao@gmail.com>]

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Hi aj,

> if you're writing a protocol that's
> dependent on people seeing that a package as a whole pays a competitive
> feerate, don't you want to know in advance what conditions the network
> is going to impose on your transactions in order to consider them as a
> package?

I do think unifying the size/count constraints would result in a more
stable/easier to reason about interface for L2 devs. Then the requirement
for propagation is just a path of nodes that support v1 package relay, and
it’s implied their mempool policy supports it as well. Also seems like it
could be a fingerprinting problem for nodes to give very specific
count/size limits.

> (… maybe core's defaults should be reconsidered rather than standardised
as-is)

> Worst case, you could presumably do a new package relay version with
> different constraints, if needed.

Maybe this was my actual concern. I think the defaults are safe but it’s
not like they’ve been proven to be optimal. This creates an obstacle to
changing them, especially if we want to make them smaller. But I think it’s
unlikely we’ll do that, and adding another version for new constraints
doesn’t seem too bad.


(Agreed with everything here, thanks for the feedback and clarifications!)
TLDR, making these changes:
- Count and size are implied by the version. Version 1 is specifically
child-with-unconfirmed-parents, where the whole package is at most 25
transactions and 101KvB.
- Announce sendpackages based on our own state. It’s ok to send
“sendpackages” if they sent fRelay=false.
- At verack, require fRelay=true and wtxidrelay if they sent sendpackages,
otherwise disconnect.
- If we get “getpckgtxns” or “pckgtxns” without having negotiated
“sendpackages” ahead of time, ignore, don’t disconnect. Emphasize that the
intention is to validate all of the transactions received through
“pckgtxns” together.

> If you're asking for the package for "D", would a response telling you:
>   txid_D (500 sat, 100vB)
>   txid_A (0 sat, 100vB)
>   txid_B (2000 sat, 100 vB)
> be better, in that case? Then the receiver can maybe do the logic
> themselves to figure out that they already have A in their mempool
> so it's fine, or not?

Right, I also considered giving the fees and sizes of each transaction in
the package in “pckginfo1”. But I don’t think that information provides
additional meaning unless you know the exact topology, i.e. also know if
the parents have dependency relationships between them. For instance, in
the {A, B, D} package there, even if you have the information listed, your
decision should be different depending on whether B spends from A. The only
thing you know for sure about a child with direct parents is: if the
aggregate feerate is too low, you won’t want the child since it depends on
everyone else. If there’s a good-feerate transaction in there that doesn’t
have a dependency, you’re fine as long as someone sends it to you
individually.

Best,
Gloria

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 2:34 PM Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 02:40:58PM -0400, Gloria Zhao via bitcoin-dev
> wrote:
> > > Does it make sense for these to be configurable, rather than implied
> > > by the version?
> > > … would it be better to either just not do sendpackages
> > > at all if you're limiting ancestors in the mempool incompatibly
> > Effectively: if you’re setting your ancestor/descendant limits lower than
> > the default, you can’t do package relay. I wonder if this might be
> > controversial, since it adds pressure to adhere to Bitcoin Core’s current
> > mempool policy? I would be happy to do it this way, though - makes things
> > easier to implement.
>
> How about looking at it the other way: if you're writing a protocol that's
> dependent on people seeing that a package as a whole pays a competitive
> feerate, don't you want to know in advance what conditions the network
> is going to impose on your transactions in order to consider them as a
> package? In that case, aren't the "depth" and "size" constraints things
> we should specify in a standard?
>
> (The above's not a rhetorical question; I'm not sure what the answer is.
> And even if it's "yes", maybe core's defaults should be reconsidered
> rather than standardised as-is)
>
> Worst case, you could presumably do a new package relay version with
> different constraints, if needed.
>
> > > > 5. If 'fRelay==false' in a peer's version message, the node must not
> > > >    send "sendpackages" to them. If a "sendpackages" message is
> > > > received by a peer after sending `fRelay==false` in their version
> > > > message, the sender should be disconnected.
> > > Seems better to just say "if you set fRelay=false in your version
> > > message, you must not send sendpackages"? You already won't do packages
> > > with the peer if they don't also announce sendpackages.
> > I guess, theoretically, if you allow bloom filters with this peer, it’s
> > plausible they’re saying “fRelay=false, I’ll send you a bloom filter
> later,
> > and I’ll also want to talk about packages.”
>
> I was just meaning "it's okay to send VERSION fRelay=true then immediately
> send WTXIDRELAY then immediately send SENDPACKAGES" without having to
> first verify what the other guy's fRelay was set to. On the other hand,
> you do already have to verify the other guy's version is high enough,
> but it would be kind-of nice to move towards just announcing the features
> you support, and not having to make it a multistep negotiation...
>
> > > Maybe: "You must not send sendpackages unless you also send
> wtxidrelay" ?
> > Do you mean if we get a verack, and the peer sent “sendpackages” but not
> > “wtxidrelay,” we should disconnect them?
>
> Yes.
>
> > I have it as: we send a PCKG INV when this transaction’s feerate is above
> > the fee filter, but one or more of its parents don’t. I don’t think using
> > ancestor feerate is better.
> > See this counterexample:
> >
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/glozow/bitcoin-notes/master/mempool_garden/abc_1parent_2kids.png
> > A (0fee) has 2 kids, B (3sat/vB) and C (20sat/vB), everything’s the same
> > vsize. Let’s say the fee filter is 3sat/vB.
> > If we do it based on ancestor feerate, we won’t send B. But B is actually
> > fine; C is paying for A.
>
> But that only works if the receiver also has C, in which case they also
> have A, and you don't need package relay to do anything with B? If they
> didn't have C already, then relaying {A,B} would be a waste of time,
> because {A,B} would be rejected as only paying 1.5sat/vB or whatever..
>
> If you switch it to being:
>
>   A (0 sats, 200vB)
>   B (2000 sats, 200vB, spends A:0)
>   C (200 sats, 200vB)
>   D (1000 sats, 200vB, sepnds A:1, C:0)
>
> then you get:
>
>   A alone = 0s/vB
>   B+A = 5s/vB
>
>   C alone = 1s/vB
>   D+C+A = 2s/vB
>   D+C = 3s/vB      (B+A already at 5s/vB)
>
> which I think recovers your point, while also having all the details
> only be dealing with direct parents.
>
> > > Are "getpckgtxns" / "pcktxns" really limited to packages, or are they
> > > just a general way to request a batch of transactions?
> > > Maybe call those messages "getbatchtxns" and "batchtxns" and allow
> them to
> > > be used more generally, potentially in ways unrelated to packages/cpfp?
> > Indeed, it’s a general way to request a batch of transactions. I’ll
> > highlight that it is “all or nothing,” i.e. if the sender is missing any
> of
> > them, they’ll just send a notfound.
> > The idea here was to avoid downloading any transactions that can’t be
> > validated right away.
>
> Right; maybe I should just be calling a "batch of packages to be validated
> together" a "tx package" in the first place.
>
> Maybe it would be worth emphasising that you should be expecting to
> validate all the txs you receive as a response to getpckgtxns (getpkgtxs
> :) all at the same time, and immediately upon receiving them?
>
> > > The "only be sent if both peers agreed to do package relay" rule could
> > > simply be dropped, I think.
> > Wouldn’t we need some way of saying “hey I support batchtxns?” Otherwise
> > you would have to guess by sending a request and waiting to see if it’s
> > ignored?
>
> Sure, perhaps I should have said leave that rule, but drop the following
> "should be disconnected" rule, so that other BIPs could add in other
> ways of negotiating the connection in future? *shrug*
>
> > > Shouldn't the sender only be sending package announcements when they
> know
> > > the recipient will be interested in the package, based on their
> feefilter?
> > I think there are cases where the sender doesn’t necessarily know.
> > Consider this example:
> >
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/glozow/bitcoin-notes/master/mempool_garden/rich_parent_bad_cpfp.png
> > D (5sat/vB) has 2 parents, A (0sat/vB) and B (20sat/vB). All same size.
> > Feefilter is 3sat/vB.
> > If the receiver already has B, they’ll know they can just reject the
> > package already based on the pckginfo.
> > But the sender doesn’t really know that. The sender just knows A is below
> > feerate and D is above. D is above the fee filter, and its ancestor
> feerate
> > is above the fee filter.
>
> The sender would also need to know whether or not there's some other
> child E that pays for A sufficiently?
>
> If you're asking for the package for "D", would a response telling you:
>
>   txid_D (500 sat, 100vB)
>   txid_A (0 sat, 100vB)
>   txid_B (2000 sat, 100 vB)
>
> be better, in that case? Then the receiver can maybe do the logic
> themselves to figure out that they already have A in their mempool
> so it's fine, or not?
>
> If you've got a package for X, and its direct parents P1..Pn, then
> I think the logic would be:
>
>   * is X alone above my fee rate? no, then forget it
>   * otherwise, s := X.size, f := X.fees, R := [X]
>   * for P = P1..Pn:
>     * do I already have P? then skip to the next parent
>     * s += P.size, f += P.fees, R += [P]
>   * if f/s above my fee rate floor? if so, request all the txs in R
>
> and you'd request txs if-and-only-if they're a match for you mempool rate?
>
> If you have a tx with 20 in-mempool parents, then the pkginfo1 message
> as proposed would be 737 bytes; including all the fee/size info would be
> 957 bytes, maybe a 30% increase. Might be worth it though?
>
> Cheers,
> aj
>
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