From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3695EC000A for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:36:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C81040E74 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:36:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 79d3DNP6yhkR for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:36:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-oi1-x229.google.com (mail-oi1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::229]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0F004065C for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:36:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi1-x229.google.com with SMTP id w70so15151830oie.0 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 06:36:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=e9uD1l2eCTDyymv8fThTEcAXEcAgjAJGKDOC4hjgp/Y=; b=MyVv11GuoO6ZvEXNUvtnFHr9HSRw4LkUbrORZXS4KmKByr+jXYebVrphc3EqF1iGpa xdA/zfoQ9PrrUJcIpTE5h6uCIYJWTnphweZGCNkwfDlUIWJm/0XJH2ws1vf/fc59P4fk j1wVU1A5lNWC6UaEVOGGVDH/oN/hPma8hwUMIF9DWrxjhfw0cNki8/j9hpWEKVei/l22 PcI/MJbP5Rpwohf+AujvVAFdpRQ0jObG86j+wq5iYhDTXtlFhjFtsV5ZSEmyXq3U7bVA obuOAkOlhs3lBtcFoa1TmVp7eDVFGKE0qADshSKcTphWINwVPFs4owIE/r3RVUCn1n2R ysyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=e9uD1l2eCTDyymv8fThTEcAXEcAgjAJGKDOC4hjgp/Y=; b=ZXf7T5IvQgx58M49n6o3iJPhtDpzJD4EMixXCvV3NTSMEylVZDcDzKDYxe2uKm9KLn q5Kqdm0ECCzJH9/a34dB83M+9QcxYqgpJZIVwJVO28Yyohp3naa9YpNaHkVgJe7m/IZa g3nfffWVY3MFr/fuoMpLZPxt9KVc/cRk+qEAG/TN5+OgIIGM+lxCdVAXyXZYZBLQF1kV l8lwGuObTcb3MOkuk2IQdo/XFDCyEA6o/BN+3WRSmqx6emnMOq45xmr4TuNcqfcqZmoq pZll0zutgWr+gNdliCKmHzfUT2S7CLrtouFKh2QZTEkQWI5EEbofNCGhgq7Sw3bINPJM 3jjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533JIP32K7M+VQ9aCf8lW4OPRypc0WYrAQeBCQGlwSOeToux11it G3PU/iQlh3g23aL50n3jZ18nMvVmEPsUrkzePbboXRn8Tzs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxIaxw99XLBJZl34oLjQL5iqUlxocHbhFhEUxXwYU3zLBquyDJ021DtFu5QTHubZ5EIro/EgQ77TYF/U/nl1M0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2d5:: with SMTP id a21mr3407388oid.88.1617716176393; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 06:36:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michael Folkson Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:36:05 +0100 Message-ID: To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000a9a8705bf4de6d8" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 13:39:20 +0000 Subject: [bitcoin-dev] Update on "Speedy" Trial X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 13:36:19 -0000 --0000000000000a9a8705bf4de6d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" (The email last week was an April Fools. I did my best to make light of the situation...) https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-April/018724.html I'd like to give the list an update on where we are with Speedy Trial because it is just as absurd as it looks to an outside observer. As a reminder of the timeline: February 2nd: Community meeting (100+ attendees including Core contributors) where there was broad consensus that BIP 9 was "dead" in favor of BIP 8. BIP 8 (which uses block heights) was revised to be a BIP 9 replacement. https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-February/018379.html March 6th: With no clear community consensus on whether the LOT parameter should be set to true or false in BIP 8, Russell O'Connor proposed "Speedy Trial". Taking an excerpt from David Harding's mailing list post "Speedy Trial is a way to generate fast progress" and can "fail fast". https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-March/018583.html April 6th: There are two open PRs in Bitcoin Core. PR #21377 from AJ Towns which attempts to bring BIP 9 back to life and use MTP over block height because MTP is better for test networks. (Apparently mainnet is a test network for testnet and signet these days) And PR #21392 from Andrew Chow which uses BIP 8 and block height as discussed in those first community meetings. BIP 8 has been revised to incorporate Speedy Trial while BIP 9 hasn't. I think we are fast approaching a time where we are in exactly the same situation as we were with the LOT parameter. Bitcoin Core is unable to merge anything because of limited opposition to using block height of all things. I do encourage everyone to look at this and understand which individuals are making this situation absurd. They will most likely be the same individuals that decry the dangers of a future UASF having made "Speedy" Trial a total oxymoron. I won't be attending the meeting later, I'd rather pull teeth. If people are in agreement with me on no further progress being possible in Core I think we will need to restart the UASF discussions. Luke warned that these kinds of shenanigans could happen but I really lacked imagination on the tricks some people could pull. -- Michael Folkson Email: michaelfolkson@gmail.com Keybase: michaelfolkson PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3 --0000000000000a9a8705bf4de6d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(The email last week was an April Fools. I did my bes= t to make light of the situation...)
https://list= s.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-April/018724.html
<= /div>

I'd like to give the list an update on where we are= with Speedy Trial because it is just as absurd as it looks to an outside o= bserver. As a reminder of the timeline:

February 2nd: Co= mmunity meeting (100+ attendees including Core contributors) where there wa= s broad consensus that BIP 9 was "dead" in favor of BIP 8. BIP 8 = (which uses block heights) was revised to be a BIP 9 replacement.
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev= /2021-February/018379.html

March 6th: With= no clear community consensus on whether the LOT parameter should be set to= true or false in BIP 8, Russell O'Connor proposed "Speedy Trial&q= uot;. Taking an excerpt from David Harding's mailing list post "Speedy Trial is a way t= o generate fast progress" and can "fail fast".
<= div>https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev= /2021-March/018583.html

April 6th: There a= re two open PRs in Bitcoin Core. PR #21377 from AJ Towns which attempts to = bring BIP 9 back to life and use MTP over block height because MTP is bette= r for test networks. (Apparently mainnet is a test network for testnet and = signet these days) And PR #21392 from Andrew Chow which uses BIP 8 and bloc= k height as discussed in those first community meetings. BIP 8 has been rev= ised to incorporate Speedy Trial while BIP 9 hasn't.

I think we are fast approaching a time where we are in exactly the s= ame situation as we were with the LOT parameter. Bitcoin Core is unable to = merge anything because of limited opposition to using block height of all t= hings.

I do encourage everyone to look at this and= understand which individuals are=C2=A0making this situation absurd. They w= ill most likely be the same individuals that decry the dangers of a future= =C2=A0UASF having made "Speedy" Trial a total oxymoron.

I won't be attending the meeting later, I'd rather = pull teeth. If people are in agreement with me on no further progress being= possible in Core I think we will need to restart the UASF discussions. Luk= e warned that these kinds of shenanigans could happen but I really lacked i= magination on the tricks some people could pull.

-= -
Michael Folkson<= div>Email:=C2= =A0michaelfol= kson@gmail.com
Keybase: michaelfolkson
PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D4= 0 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3
<= /div>
--0000000000000a9a8705bf4de6d8--