From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WwyRW-0006Z7-JI for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 17 Jun 2014 18:49:14 +0000 Received: from mail-qc0-f170.google.com ([209.85.216.170]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WwyRU-0005Nx-TL for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 17 Jun 2014 18:49:14 +0000 Received: by mail-qc0-f170.google.com with SMTP id l6so10669533qcy.29 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2014 11:49:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sbCEBhQiI5q1lTxLXKOb9C6CES1+MTzDg98VUTq8/cc=; b=ZEUkX4TGxPxTtBlCeNsmhvPO6P0LC1n2bt2aP+yixgJNA/oezvahsoFq7JSs3vYzga IJ0+l0aGqQUjWWL9pXpPQqp6/PHc36fbk9bifrUBIOHh43CnbwUpBiCehalA3BHP2L3D VcWjmfoVDvPzXoK7WrQcGiVDswyTVbEHVN3TrQbQNpteaRyJn/Wt2diYKTwGfHLE2kHe 8EuCfgPalEM467qri1BscV3I2Z3k5XRlmw3kJvUijRJaGRsNtSuQRUzXXPC1yOSOTz8x TE68O1huvF20f6y5TjqUbP2ZEgt5SRtuFvd6ydBv0/C9DC8EAnpw5JidpEQuNINBCbAT weGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmDjGMKfKhfod4Q5c16O5hCYMJCfFfby+90sO1l9E2MjG0txR6IHIcWWxzu/7ySpFe4D5qd X-Received: by 10.140.104.66 with SMTP id z60mr36129897qge.21.1403029560131; Tue, 17 Jun 2014 11:26:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.95.101 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jun 2014 11:25:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [78.128.176.71] In-Reply-To: References: From: =?UTF-8?B?S2FyZWwgQsOtbGVr?= Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 20:25:39 +0200 Message-ID: To: Christophe Biocca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. X-Headers-End: 1WwyRU-0005Nx-TL Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposals for improving Bitcoin mining decentralization X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 18:49:14 -0000 On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Christophe Biocca wrote: > https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getblocktemplate is supposed to solve most > of the pooling-centralization problems. This. There is no need to create anything new when GBT already exists. In my opinion. > Unfortunately, it is opt-in, > and GHash.io doesn't support it. Yep. As pools in general are not a part of the bitcoin protocol itself (nobody cares how the work happened), I am not sure how this can be forced. > Also most miners don't care and don't do the work to set it up. To do > transaction inclusion themselves, they'd need to run a full node, > which is a bit more work and resources than just pointing hashpower at > a stratum server. Also, yep. If the miners cared about 51% attack, they wouldn't join ghash in the first place. All the miners willingly accept the risk in joining the big pool. K. B. > If you figure out a way to make GBT widely used (>50% hashpower), kudos t= o you. > > On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Ra=C3=BAl Mart=C3=ADnez w= rote: >> First of all I apologice due to the possible mistakes in my writing belo= w, I >> am not a Bitcoin developer but I have some knowledge about it. >> >> ---- >> >> We all know the recent news, Ghash pool controlling 51% of the hashrate. >> While some consider it a threat others think that is not harmful. >> >> The thing is that we have to do something to stop this from happening ag= ain. >> >> My proposal is to start thinking about miners that join a pool like >> independent miners and not slave miners, this includes creating a new mi= ning >> protocol that does not rely on the pool sending the list of transactions= to >> include in a block. Each individual miner has to collect transactions by= his >> own and mine that, this can be achieved by running a full node or by run= ning >> a SPV like node that ask other nodes for transactions. >> >> Once this protocol is developed and standarised we as a community could >> require all pools to use it (because its better, because is more >> trustless...), not by imposing it but by recommending it. >> >> Pool owners could send some instructions using this protocol to the mine= r >> about how many transactions to include per block (some pools want small >> blocks), how many 0 fee transactions to include, how much is the minimum= fee >> per Kb to include transactions and some info about the Coinbase field in= the >> block. >> >> This way is impossible to perform some of the possible 51% attacks: >> >> A pool owner cant mine a new chain (selfish mining) (pool clients have a= SPV >> or full node that has checkpoints and ask other peers about the length o= f >> the chain) >> A pool owner can't perform double spends or reverse transactions (pool >> clients know all the transactions relayed to the network, they know if t= hey >> are already included on a block) >> A pool owner cant decide which transactions not to include (but they can >> configure the minimum fee). >> A pool owner cant get all the rewards by avoiding other pools from minin= g >> blocks (Because the pool client knows the last block independently that = is >> from his pool or other). >> >> >> The only thing that a 51% pool owner can do is to shut down his pool and >> drop the hashrate by 51% because he does not control the miners. >> >> If the pool owner owns all the hardware in the pool my proposal is not >> valid, if the pool clients dont use this protocol my proposal is not val= id. >> >> >> I want to know if this is possible or its been developed or there is alr= eady >> a working protocol that works like this, also I want to read other peopl= e's >> ways to address this threat, thanks for reading. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ >> HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solution= s >> Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems >> Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data. >> Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- > HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions > Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems > Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data. > Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration > http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development