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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5614622812f47-42c7e587c22si542907b6e.4.2025.07.30.07.20.40 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ccychc@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36; Received: by mail-yb1-xb36.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e8b3cc12dceso5102976276.1 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:20:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncurPUxBOvhaHLjt9jqaXjQVC/X00FHWk5uPzTbGQ1WgPIrxUB5oUGeRd3GM1FW xqCHcVgiTjfUUN1HdiM7EL2p+1GGXxq+zLAvyxhcDGCLvOPossXUt7qAf/wUbm6NGRjF1puSc5z /xauUAZoC3Hmn0GJLpnvqDOBs2ilf2jBBERbj5tTjO9ct/tQingb3C1e6XDmv2Xslqp+6JjFopf PNBQw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:4792:b0:e8d:71b0:aa34 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e8e3149882dmr4099464276.10.1753885239373; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:20:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3452b63c-ff2b-4dd9-90ee-83fd9cedcf4an@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: From: K Calvin Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 23:20:27 +0900 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXysj41DtnXJLj-MGOU433Xi9wgwFIMAqBtI-CrX_eHou9kW2twGLMuC-Ak Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: [BIP Proposal] Utreexo Nodes To: Javier Mateos Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ab76da063b263a47" X-Original-Sender: ccychc@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b="K1hD/zKz"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ccychc@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ccychc@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --000000000000ab76da063b263a47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Javier, Thanks for taking the time to do the conceptual analysis. As for the missing detail you mentioned, I think this section in the validation BIP has that covered: https://github.com/utreexo/biptreexo/blob/main/utreexo-validation-bip.md#or= der-of-operations We wanted the accumulator BIP free from any Bitcoin related operations. Thus anything that has to do with validation of Bitcoin blocks will be found in the validation BIP. Best, Calvin On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 6:22=E2=80=AFPM Javier Mateos wrote: > Hi Calvin, Tadge, Davidson, > Thanks for sharing this important work ...it's exciting to see Utreexo > maturing into a full BIP proposal. The modular split into accumulator, > validation, and P2P layers is very clean and helpful for review. > After a quick conceptual and implementation-level analysis, I believe > there's a critical detail missing from the current accumulator spec: a > deterministic order for processing UTXO deletions and additions per block= . > Aside from that, the spec is well written and shows deep consideration. > Best regards, > > El martes, 29 de julio de 2025 a las 20:26:42 UTC-3, Calvin Kim escribi= =C3=B3: > >> Hello all, >> >> Tadge Dryja, Davidson Souza, and I would like to propose 3 BIPs >> describing Utreexo, a consensus-compatible (non-soft fork) way to send a= nd >> verify transactions without storing the full UTXO set. >> >> The 3 BIPs are for: >> >> 1. The specification of the Utreexo accumulator. >> 2. The specification of Bitcoin block and tx validation using the >> Utreexo accumulator. >> 3. The peer to peer networking changes required to enable Utreexo >> nodes. >> >> >> We are currently looking for conceptual review. Do note that the >> documents are not final, and they will be updated. >> >> All of the BIPs can be found here: https://github.com/utreexo/biptreexo >> >> We thank you in advance for your time and consideration. >> >> Best, >> Calvin >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/e007ba14-c66d-4e8c-9b9e-adb2= c4025be5n%40googlegroups.com > > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAGYLYJQPi34eACgJ-7wY%2BCcdaF-UOrWc9Cs0D89U0%2BgYt8SwZg%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000ab76da063b263a47 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Javier,

Thanks for taking the time to do the conceptual analysis.

As for the missing detail you menti= oned, I think this section in the validation BIP has that covered:

We wanted the accumulator BIP free from any B= itcoin related operations. Thus anything that has to do with validation of = Bitcoin blocks will be found in the validation BIP.
=
Best,
Calvin
<= br>
On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 6:22=E2=80=AFPM Javier Mateos <<= a href=3D"mailto:javierpmateos@gmail.com">javierpmateos@gmail.com> w= rote:
Hi C= alvin, Tadge, Davidson,
Thanks = for sharing this important work ...it's exciting to see Utreexo maturin= g into a full BIP proposal. The modular split into accumulator, validation,= and P2P layers is very clean and helpful for review.
After a quick conceptual and implementation-level an= alysis, I believe there's a critical detail missing from the current ac= cumulator spec: a deterministic order for processing UTXO deletions and add= itions per block.
Aside from th= at, the spec is well written and shows deep consideration.
Best regards,

El martes, 29 de julio de 2025 a= las 20:26:42 UTC-3, Calvin Kim escribi=C3=B3:
=
Hello all,

Tadge Dryja, Davidson Souza, and I would like to pro= pose 3 BIPs describing Utreexo, a consensus-compatible (non-soft fork) way = to send and verify transactions without storing the full UTXO set.

T= he 3 BIPs are for:
  1. The specification of the Utreexo accumu= lator.
  2. The specification of Bitcoin block and tx valid= ation using the Utreexo accumulator.
  3. The peer to peer = networking changes required to enable Utreexo nodes.

We= are currently looking for conceptual review. Do note that the documents ar= e not final, and they will be updated.

All of the BIPs can be found = here: https://github.com/utreexo/biptreexo

We thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

Best,
Calvin

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