From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C365E91 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2018 05:06:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wr1-f43.google.com (mail-wr1-f43.google.com [209.85.221.43]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA0487A4 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2018 05:06:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wr1-f43.google.com with SMTP id p4so7124123wrt.7 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 21:06:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=m3x0hYrNJY7EDEgmP0Dd4zwCXx6UVe1pHt5OWd3442M=; b=NhGSBDM+MjUgDgQ03jKtBNSPWPvtVf7loehbsR6a0FnUVamgtW1oGGQt7DB2HvGv1N LPejhbxM6pYMBzC/qk7ubzCgMcUhINt5rS/IH0bV2B+I+KU2kKeVKmIE0Nr1yBhnRWv5 5gHnfUrLG3v2wzYfY/Dx0ncMhPXHGuxk2ttFEvpK5LHAPzNh75onM+OrrpPfHnZQimdS sDKxladTPKCMNNWlDuy35lroabvZwZHccW2c8ysJiKFdF9X6zjRnBHTbMqyzxMnafGKg dnIKEbWda6g8jL3aQ4jwPq1MxMj9CGmYaZz8fM9GCu0wchWW6O6CA6UyCCnr2K8gGCAn w+dQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=m3x0hYrNJY7EDEgmP0Dd4zwCXx6UVe1pHt5OWd3442M=; b=fcQt9cRJavpf83MfO936Ag3dnECU+wJUVblSKK5WYQkXyIN9jszs/NTKqZwAjJ9+BJ gp0c3BO5NNlQaHtr/TplnL4QCMMIcnbFS1NX/BNSsU6j6Exbmuy0FkSo3L/t5ByxQiVQ cOVhRJCw+QKY634FvMjNB5gaqHwmsoEkHR21Q+RXelrhqvnlO/3sJ9gqJEWwio8R/GXN /Yg0Un9r7lmRzn52XYI3lBU26A1iEU9+33d8ZXgggAbmFJ67CYnhStgVNFUS4tElBfAo Qd8f3O2AyletE1HZ4wh/Ms6pHp28usdnC8NYoMZT3k0BAC7L0k14NgYMJRsHEB2Yi0e8 dq4w== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWa3AAXtNsG3YAQlOej3vxXunbW6NjfkOcmpC/vLPc37rfq4+Mpr d3YuQ6li26UJBZFSWQtQ0ztPYS5VAG8BPBcn/6pvFBXa X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/UUVuRajX0Nho4L8Y0Rsl7xF1BJc3nIAMhsvE+UgfOQOg32U9xVpbKg05wEARc6ZyLf9OSVseaNzr9vyqDXu9Q= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:5089:: with SMTP id a9mr7315071wrt.327.1543640815309; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 21:06:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: James MacWhyte Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 21:06:29 -0800 Message-ID: To: nothingmuch@woobling.org, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007518bf057beee20e" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 01 Dec 2018 14:04:25 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] draft proposal: change forwarding (improved fungibility through wallet interoperability) X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2018 05:06:57 -0000 --0000000000007518bf057beee20e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Yuval! Sorry for reviving an old email thread. Could you describe what the UX would be like, or how a wallet developer might implement this? Is the intention that someone would open their non-private wallet, and choose an option that slowly siphons their funds into a different app? Why would anyone want that feature? If the user is privacy-conscious, why did they choose the non-private wallet to begin with? Why wouldn't they just move all their funds to the private wallet so they can continue to use just one app? And if the user is not privacy-conscious, they would never choose to enable this option, so why would the wallet developer even bother to implement it? >From a product standpoint, I can't see how this would be useful, and therefore I'm not sure why it needs to be a BIP. If I'm missing something, please let me know! Thanks, James On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 10:18 AM Yuval Kogman via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Hello, > > I would like to propose a method based on BIP32 (and optionally BIP44) for > improving fungibility and on chain privacy with wallets for which this is > not a primary concern, requiring minimal changes to allow such wallets to > safely forward change outputs to more specialized wallets. This is intended > to complement more comprehensive proposals such as BIP79. > > Note that this draft is still incomplete, there are open questions about > the particular format to use. In its current form it proposes two viable > options (and two more are included completeness) and though I have a slight > preference for the first option, I remain undecided given the tradeoffs, > and so I am writing the mailing list to solicit inputs/criticism. > > https://gist.github.com/nothingmuch/652f3a98089a0600637eadab738b2d6a > > Thanks to SirMeow, Adam Ficsor, and Adam Gibson for reviewing earlier > versions and providing valuable feedback and suggestions. > > Regards, > Yuval > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --0000000000007518bf057beee20e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Yuval!

Sorry for reviving an old ema= il thread. Could you describe what the UX would be like, or how a wallet de= veloper might implement this? Is the intention that someone would open thei= r non-private wallet, and choose an option that slowly siphons their funds = into a different app? Why would anyone want that feature?

If the user is privacy-conscious, why did they choose the non-private wal= let to begin with? Why wouldn't they just move all their funds to the p= rivate wallet so they can continue to use just one app?

And if the u= ser is not privacy-conscious, they would never choose to enable this option= , so why would the wallet developer even bother to implement it?
=
From a product standpoint, I can't see how this would be= useful, and therefore I'm not sure why it needs to be a BIP. If I'= m missing something, please let=C2=A0me know!

Than= ks,
James


On = Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 10:18 AM Yuval Kogman via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundati= on.org> wrote:
Hello,

I would lik= e to propose a method based on BIP32 (and optionally BIP44) for improving f= ungibility and on chain privacy with wallets for which this is not a primar= y concern, requiring minimal changes to allow such wallets to safely forwar= d change outputs to more specialized wallets. This is intended to complemen= t more comprehensive proposals such as BIP79.

Note= that this draft is still incomplete, there are open questions about the pa= rticular format to use. In its current form it proposes two viable options = (and two more are included completeness) and though I have a slight prefere= nce for the first option, I remain undecided given the tradeoffs, and so I = am writing the mailing list to solicit inputs/criticism.


Thanks to SirMeow= , Adam Ficsor, and Adam Gibson for reviewing earlier versions and providing= valuable feedback and suggestions.

Regards,
=
Yuval
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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