From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5436C0001 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 14:32:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98FC94B158 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 14:32:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.85 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.85 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p20n8l-sPBRh for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 14:32:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-ej1-x630.google.com (mail-ej1-x630.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::630]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDF0F4917A for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 14:32:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ej1-x630.google.com with SMTP id jt13so62058487ejb.0 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 07:32:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=9YBEu94aJaU7gjojilCXhjQHizUQstuk8VHnu0OqZhA=; b=DJu+FY18m3lS7rplvlaIk3jAb25m/9lSL/OUdtPq18Lvh33fYesj1datPkaT5uZuRD EGkXbrs01nxfQvZ3m9aleXBNMmevsJlM/7OFlrRSdcjlsnheI1/ATF5JIs1LYCE6QuQY BgfB6Q7t3qQuiGrBto5ncdYSeQSBTpVTXtEMYJz8oeW9XYcOcZrQmH0rkRwDNUmDuIAx QPpDEj17+fIqK0rYYTUzmZ6akBw6nr2lQlmVGrDGBQdEyVrDsKkbofkac5TggfBkrQlA 8p874pnyKiNrtmQCjBah8aHk+UtE37oRozRB+Da0pbW6bf2yAVYCQF+Ys+axdEcWSNfn 73lw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9YBEu94aJaU7gjojilCXhjQHizUQstuk8VHnu0OqZhA=; b=E/PK+bRArHEqu+Axc6k2nO9Ix3Mex8bmoMMNOU2qgqAdmfFG7q9NIYg6vNXCbc1zqR mCS2E/GBgQrQG737epQ6Uv3WptpsEBZ7S6USO94fglpr4Og55YzkdSE4cMX7q2kLUD2F 9CuanFMFy/OwsXpyBJyiHtVugMNa9Wy0l5mSlVcD03NvIBnRY4OzrRizatdADCQeR2V5 +HZr4gy318MQVdxUmQRVu+2Y4uN2uhu8/yDhoRxe6d3zBDvSFl/I1WmBhaUuXs3FWKS7 jCLao+1STlaT7h+QYFzU+Aluuy4JP/8eCox2jc6EgPE+slm+UOYI3NmsxOqdiqxYdC44 UJEg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531WUcxTURClIBWmg3KkTEJ+A8i3t2HZIbvnXwBygaZTcVLxsHQi i9ezAs5Bj8atqh645ET87Uj7xX1uFB7izyXSHCw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzf43W6585cDzxqIzMKOMXJEIXbKnROUIARUdOoWJq9pWSSVVZpNn+qZ36P8roTNsoHx7cxm27Fz1y/ys7M6BM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:30d9:: with SMTP id b25mr18763404ejb.348.1615732349125; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 07:32:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Thomas Hartman Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 10:32:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 13:22:59 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 14:32:32 -0000 MY LORD HIS EXCELLENCY: It is indeed a contest between free markets and central planning. Governments can in effect say, you are permitted to buy energy to smelt aluminum, but not to mine bitcoin, even if bitcoin is more profitable. To the extent that free markets in energy are suppressed, as you pointed out in china, bitcoin can indeed be suppressed. The solution is not to make bitcoin a centrally managed currency, but to fight hard for free speech, free markets, and in particular free markets in energy. That being said, bitcoin is designed to thrive even if driven underground= . Your humble subject etc. On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 9:41 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Good Afternoon, > > It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current cost= of mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected because it= is considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow anyone to mi= ne but, since mining requires specific hardware and energy requirements it = is already a form of censorship where most on the planet except for the top= 6% I am guessing here, cannot afford to mine. Without affecting the curren= t algorithm, I have previously begun to explore the process by which mining= can be turned into a lottery with only authorized payto addresses able to = mine valid blocks, since transaction fees and block rewards exist to pay th= e miner. It would be better even if the algorithms are improved if there ar= e some ways that only a subset of miners can produce valid blocks for any g= iven period, say for 12 months with four groups starting three months apart= to transition, and maybe limit mining to 50 people per continent to produc= e valid blocks at any one time. Possibly this requires a consortium to over= see the lottery but it is something Bitcoin can handle themselves, and woul= d do better to handle than to wait for government intervention as we have s= een previously in China where power was too cheap Bitcoin was banned entire= ly. > > KING JAMES HRMH > Great British Empire > > Regards, > The Australian > LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > MR. Damian A. James Williamson > Wills > > et al. > > > Willtech > www.willtech.com.au > www.go-overt.com > and other projects > > earn.com/willtech > linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > > m. 0487135719 > f. +61261470192 > > > This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this em= ail if misdelivered. > ________________________________ > From: bitcoin-dev on beha= lf of Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev > Sent: Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM > To: Devrandom > Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion > Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datas= tore for Energy Efficient Mining > > Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate that my cryptograp= hy proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also tackles problems = such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the BTC network could= be vulnerable to in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do want to do th= is BIP because it tackles lots of the issues in regards to this manner and = can provide useful insight to the community. If things such as bigger block= height have been proposed as hard forks, I feel at the very least an upgra= de regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptography does at least warrant s= ome discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my BIP, just let me know on t= he preferred format? > > Best regards, Andrew > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Foundation wrote: > > Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to renewabl= es or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the most out of= your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness of it, but = do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitH= ub and just attach it as my proposal? > > Best regards, Andrew > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom wrote= : > > Hi Ryan and Andrew, > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ > "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work" > on | 04 Aug 2015 > > > Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining market= will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward. It does not pro= ve that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost. > > Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and t= hat we should move to other resources. I would argue that the negative ext= ernalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the poin= t is likely moot. > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev