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From: "G. Andrew Stone" <g.andrew.stone@gmail.com>
To: Burak Keceli <burak@buraks.blog>,
	 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Ark: An Alternative Privacy-preserving Second Layer Solution
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 18:06:02 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHUwRvvo-HE=dY00jErFMgAqq_jCS_hCna=eaAQPYLkGSEHYtA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2021501773.1219513.1684816284977@eu1.myprofessionalmail.com>

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Do you have any write up that presents a fully detailed architecture,
including mechanisms like bitcoin scripts, transactions and L2 protocols,
and then derives claims from that base?

On Tue, May 23, 2023, 5:59 AM Burak Keceli via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> > As the access to Lightning is also by the (same?) ASP, it seems to me
> that the ASP will simply fail to forward the payment on the broader
> Lightning network after it has replaced the in-mempool transaction,
> preventing recipients from actually being able to rely on any received
> funds existing until the next pool transaction is confirmed.
>
> Yes, that's correct. Lightning payments are routed through ASPs. ASP may
> not cooperate in forwarding HTLC(s) AFTER double-spending their pool
> transaction. However, it's a footgun if ASP forwards HTLC(s) BEFORE
> double-spending their pool transaction.
>
> What makes Ark magical is, in the collaborative case, users' ability to
> pay lightning invoices with their zero-conf vTXOs, without waiting for
> on-chain confirmations.
>
> This is the opposite of swap-ins, where users SHOULD wait for on-chain
> confirmations before revealing their preimage of the HODL invoice;
> otherwise, the swap service provider can steal users' sats by
> double-spending their zero-conf HTLC.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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  reply	other threads:[~2023-05-23 22:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 19+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-05-22  7:54 [bitcoin-dev] Ark: An Alternative Privacy-preserving Second Layer Solution Burak Keceli
2023-05-22 13:03 ` ZmnSCPxj
2023-05-23  4:31   ` Burak Keceli
2023-05-23 22:06     ` G. Andrew Stone [this message]
2023-05-24  0:40     ` ZmnSCPxj
2023-05-24  0:45       ` ZmnSCPxj
2023-05-24  7:53         ` Burak Keceli
2023-05-24  6:28       ` Burak Keceli
2023-05-24 20:20 ` adiabat
2023-05-24 23:02 ` David A. Harding
2023-05-26 11:56   ` Burak Keceli
2023-05-27 20:36     ` David A. Harding
2023-06-07 13:30       ` Burak Keceli
2023-08-06 22:43     ` Antoine Riard
2023-05-25 12:12 Ali Sherief
2023-05-26  7:33 jk_14
2023-05-28  6:02 Ali Sherief
2023-06-07 18:20 David A. Harding
2023-06-11  9:19 moonsettler

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