From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YyL51-00062q-Vg for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 29 May 2015 14:16:11 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 74.125.82.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.47; envelope-from=bbrelin@gmail.com; helo=mail-wg0-f47.google.com; Received: from mail-wg0-f47.google.com ([74.125.82.47]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1YyL50-0001jX-BZ for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 29 May 2015 14:16:11 +0000 Received: by wgbgq6 with SMTP id gq6so64006710wgb.3 for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 07:16:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.83.39 with SMTP id n7mr15155467wjy.65.1432908964251; Fri, 29 May 2015 07:16:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.154.137 with HTTP; Fri, 29 May 2015 07:15:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <16096345.A1MpJQQkRW@crushinator> From: Braun Brelin Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 17:15:43 +0300 Message-ID: To: insecurity@national.shitposting.agency Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb04c8acf4cf80517391d9c X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (bbrelin[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1YyL50-0001jX-BZ Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 14:16:12 -0000 --047d7bb04c8acf4cf80517391d9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 How is this being pigheaded? In my opinion, this is leadership. If *something* isn't implemented soon, the network is going to have some real problems, right at the time when adoption is starting to accelerate. I've been seeing nothing but navel-gazing and circlejerks on this issue for weeks now. Gavin or Mike or someone at some point needs to step up and say "follow me". Braun Brelin On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 5:00 PM, wrote: > Are you really that pig headed that you are going to try and blow up the > entire system just to get your way? A bunch of ignorant redditors do not > make consensus, mercifully. > > > On 2015-05-29 12:39, Gavin Andresen wrote: > > What do other people think? > > > > If we can't come to an agreement soon, then I'll ask for help > > reviewing/submitting patches to Mike's Bitcoin-Xt project that > > implement a big increase now that grows over time so we may never have > > to go through all this rancor and debate again. > > > > I'll then ask for help lobbying the merchant services and exchanges > > and hosted wallet companies and other bitcoind-using-infrastructure > > companies (and anybody who agrees with me that we need bigger blocks > > sooner rather than later) to run Bitcoin-Xt instead of Bitcoin Core, > > and state that they are running it. We'll be able to see uptake on the > > network by monitoring client versions. > > > > Perhaps by the time that happens there will be consensus bigger blocks > > are needed sooner rather than later; if so, great! The early > > deployment will just serve as early testing, and all of the software > > already deployed will ready for bigger blocks. > > > > But if there is still no consensus among developers but the "bigger > > blocks now" movement is successful, I'll ask for help getting big > > miners to do the same, and use the soft-fork block version voting > > mechanism to (hopefully) get a majority and then a super-majority > > willing to produce bigger blocks. The purpose of that process is to > > prove to any doubters that they'd better start supporting bigger > > blocks or they'll be left behind, and to give them a chance to upgrade > > before that happens. > > > > Because if we can't come to consensus here, the ultimate authority for > > determining consensus is what code the majority of merchants and > > exchanges and miners are running. > > > > -- > > > > -- > > Gavin Andresen > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bitcoin-development mailing list > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > --047d7bb04c8acf4cf80517391d9c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
How is this being pigheaded? In my opinion, this is leader= ship.=C2=A0 If *something* isn't implemented soon, the network is going= to have some real problems, right at the
time when adoption is startin= g to accelerate.=C2=A0 I've been seeing nothing but navel-gazing and ci= rclejerks on this issue for weeks now.=C2=A0 Gavin or Mike or someone at so= me
point needs to step up and say "follow me".

Braun Brelin


On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 5:00 PM, <insecurity@national.shitposting.agency> = wrote:
Are you really that pig headed tha= t you are going to try and blow up the
entire system just to get your way? A bunch of ignorant redditors do not make consensus, mercifully.


On 2015-05-29 12:39, Gavin Andresen wrote:
> What do other people think?
>
> If we can't come to an agreement soon, then I'll ask for help<= br> > reviewing/submitting patches to Mike's Bitcoin-Xt project that
> implement a big increase now that grows over time so we may never have=
> to go through all this rancor and debate again.
>
> I'll then ask for help lobbying the merchant services and exchange= s
> and hosted wallet companies and other bitcoind-using-infrastructure > companies (and anybody who agrees with me that we need bigger blocks > sooner rather than later) to run Bitcoin-Xt instead of Bitcoin Core, > and state that they are running it. We'll be able to see uptake on= the
> network by monitoring client versions.
>
> Perhaps by the time that happens there will be consensus bigger blocks=
> are needed sooner rather than later; if so, great! The early
> deployment will just serve as early testing, and all of the software > already deployed will ready for bigger blocks.
>
> But if there is still no consensus among developers but the "bigg= er
> blocks now" movement is successful, I'll ask for help getting= big
> miners to do the same, and use the soft-fork block version voting
> mechanism to (hopefully) get a majority and then a super-majority
> willing to produce bigger blocks. The purpose of that process is to > prove to any doubters that they'd better start supporting bigger > blocks or they'll be left behind, and to give them a chance to upg= rade
> before that happens.
>
> Because if we can't come to consensus here, the ultimate authority= for
> determining consensus is what code the majority of merchants and
> exchanges and miners are running.
>
> --
>
> --
> Gavin Andresen
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------= --------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-d= evelopment@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitco= in-development

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Bitcoin-development mailing list
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment

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