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[2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 38308e7fff4ca-30bec6866desi1219791fa.2.2025.03.08.16.54.11 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 08 Mar 2025 16:54:11 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of agustin.cruz@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::133 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::133; Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5493b5bc6e8so3181707e87.2 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 16:54:11 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncu1CsJms2zQxafuvjRtMYpWVMqAIeEZYQM7us5uvzxbRrsSBwhh7cp6aVH69ES XohzuLDyvSIfDLc+DUhwPR1Ch+Iq0H5si7arZ8OsXi8iUJYV/LWCozaLGeTJ4WZOHXNYDDHUpqc FJuVVjFKkKAt3K779Q1qiXk1uZiM5J X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3d0b:b0:545:ab8:2bed with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-54990e677dbmr3159500e87.28.1741481650798; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 16:54:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <08a544fa-a29b-45c2-8303-8c5bde8598e7n@googlegroups.com> <83e89408-a20c-4297-96eb-3ca353be02abn@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <83e89408-a20c-4297-96eb-3ca353be02abn@googlegroups.com> From: Agustin Cruz Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 21:53:58 -0300 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1Jq2WDjlVgwo0uwIa_1i-SRVbAhA7Doem2ar1NpNokseY4_4xsYHRVQkE_U Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Proposal for Quantum-Resistant Address Migration Protocol (QRAMP) BIP To: =?UTF-8?Q?Michal_Koles=C3=A1r?= Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002dcb65062fde4baf" X-Original-Sender: agustin.cruz@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=kdJ7fKAd; spf=pass (google.com: domain of agustin.cruz@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::133 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=agustin.cruz@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --0000000000002dcb65062fde4baf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michal, I completely understand your point of view. However, the concern with QRAMP isn=E2=80=99t about arbitrarily punishing users or confiscating assets with= out reason. Rather, it=E2=80=99s about mitigating a very real, systemic risk. I= f a significant amount of funds remains in legacy addresses and a quantum breakthrough occurs, the attack wouldn=E2=80=99t be a one-off incident targ= eting a few unlucky individuals. Instead, it could compromise the security of the entire network, affecting countless users and shaking confidence in Bitcoin as a whole. The enforcement aspect of QRAMP is intended as a last-resort safety mechanism after a long and well-communicated migration period. It=E2=80=99s designed to ensure that by the time any quantum-capable adversary comes along, almost everyone=E2=80=99s funds are protected by quantum-resistant cryptography. The goal is to preempt a scenario where the vulnerability becomes so widespread that a malicious actor could trigger a massive, destabilizing reallocation of wealth. The enforced migration is less about penalizing users and more about preserving the long-term security and stability of the network for everyone= . Best regards, Agustin El s=C3=A1b, 8 de mar de 2025, 9:22=E2=80=AFp. m., Michal Koles=C3=A1r < michal@zeleny-ctverec.cz> escribi=C3=B3: > Dear Agustin, > > enforcement in general doesn=E2=80=99t seem like a good choice to me. If = I were to > compare it to the real world, it=E2=80=99s as if people had money or jewe= lry in > bank vaults that were unbreakable at the time they were stored. After a > certain period, it=E2=80=99s discovered that these vaults could be breach= ed, and > we=E2=80=99d tell everyone they have to buy new vaults and move their dia= monds, > gold, and banknotes into them. If they don=E2=80=99t do it, everything in= their old > vaults would be confiscated and destroyed. Surely, it=E2=80=99s normal th= at people > would naturally buy new vaults (or move to safer ones) if they=E2=80=99re= informed > well in advance and loudly enough about the outdated vaults. And if they > decide not to replace them, someone will eventually break in sooner or > later and become the new owner of their "wealth." That=E2=80=99s how it w= orks in > the real world, after all. Yes, perhaps if someone steals a large amount = of > Bitcoin en masse, it might temporarily lower its value. But that=E2=80=99= s fine=E2=80=94it > would just redistribute old, lost, or unused Bitcoins into new ownership, > where someone would start using them. It=E2=80=99s like finding a lost tr= easure > from the past at the bottom of the ocean. > > Best regards, > Michal > > On Wednesday, February 12, 2025 at 1:10:17=E2=80=AFAM UTC+1 Agustin Cruz = wrote: > > Dear Bitcoin Developers, > > I am writing to share my proposal for a new Bitcoin Improvement Proposal > (BIP) titled *Quantum-Resistant Address Migration Protocol (QRAMP)*. The > goal of this proposal is to safeguard Bitcoin against potential future > quantum attacks by enforcing a mandatory migration period for funds held = in > legacy Bitcoin addresses (secured by ECDSA) to quantum-resistant addresse= s. > > The proposal outlines: > > - *Reducing Vulnerabilities:* Transitioning funds to quantum-resistant > schemes preemptively to eliminate the risk posed by quantum attacks on > exposed public keys. > - *Enforcing Timelines:* A hard migration deadline that forces timely > action, rather than relying on a gradual, voluntary migration that mig= ht > leave many users at risk. > - *Balancing Risks:* Weighing the non-trivial risk of funds being > permanently locked against the potential catastrophic impact of a quan= tum > attack on Bitcoin=E2=80=99s security. > > Additionally, the proposal addresses common criticisms such as the risk o= f > permanent fund loss, uncertain quantum timelines, and the potential for > chain splits. It also details backwards compatibility measures, > comprehensive security considerations, an extensive suite of test cases, > and a reference implementation plan that includes script interpreter > changes, wallet software updates, and network monitoring tools. > > For your convenience, I have published the full proposal on my GitHub > repository. You can review it at the following link: > > Quantum-Resistant Address Migration Protocol (QRAMP) Proposal on GitHub > > > I welcome your feedback and suggestions and look forward to engaging in a > constructive discussion on how best to enhance the security and resilienc= e > of the Bitcoin network in the quantum computing era. > > Thank you for your time and consideration. > > Best regards, > > Agustin Cruz > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/83e89408-a20c-4297-96eb-3ca3= 53be02abn%40googlegroups.com > > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAJDmzYxAv8ahPOoTVryqy6oE8nUX0%2B49BHHhO%3D%3DM1HpZCuMNbQ%40mail.gmail.com. --0000000000002dcb65062fde4baf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Michal,

I completely understand your point of view. However, the con= cern with QRAMP isn=E2=80=99t about arbitrarily punishing users or confisca= ting assets without reason. Rather, it=E2=80=99s about mitigating a very re= al, systemic risk. If a significant amount of funds remains in legacy addre= sses and a quantum breakthrough occurs, the attack wouldn=E2=80=99t be a on= e-off incident targeting a few unlucky individuals. Instead, it could compr= omise the security of the entire network, affecting countless users and sha= king confidence in Bitcoin as a whole.

The enforcement aspect of QRAMP is intended as a last-resort= safety mechanism after a long and well-communicated migration period. It= =E2=80=99s designed to ensure that by the time any quantum-capable adversar= y comes along, almost everyone=E2=80=99s funds are protected by quantum-res= istant cryptography. The goal is to preempt a scenario where the vulnerabil= ity becomes so widespread that a malicious actor could trigger a massive, d= estabilizing reallocation of wealth.

The enforced migration is less about penalizing users and mo= re about preserving the long-term security and stability of the network for= everyone.

Best regards,
Agustin


El s=C3=A1b, 8 de mar de 2025, 9:22=E2=80= =AFp.=C2=A0m., Michal Koles=C3=A1r <michal@zeleny-ctverec.cz> escribi=C3=B3:
Dear Agustin,

enforcement i= n general doesn=E2=80=99t seem like a good choice to me. If I were to compa= re it to the real world, it=E2=80=99s as if people had money or jewelry in = bank vaults that were unbreakable at the time they were stored. After a cer= tain period, it=E2=80=99s discovered that these vaults could be breached, a= nd we=E2=80=99d tell everyone they have to buy new vaults and move their di= amonds, gold, and banknotes into them. If they don=E2=80=99t do it, everyth= ing in their old vaults would be confiscated and destroyed. Surely, it=E2= =80=99s normal that people would naturally buy new vaults (or move to safer= ones) if they=E2=80=99re informed well in advance and loudly enough about = the outdated vaults. And if they decide not to replace them, someone will e= ventually break in sooner or later and become the new owner of their "= wealth." That=E2=80=99s how it works in the real world, after all. Yes= , perhaps if someone steals a large amount of Bitcoin en masse, it might te= mporarily lower its value. But that=E2=80=99s fine=E2=80=94it would just re= distribute old, lost, or unused Bitcoins into new ownership, where someone = would start using them. It=E2=80=99s like finding a lost treasure from the = past at the bottom of the ocean.

Best regards,
=
Michal

On Wednesday, February 12, 2025 = at 1:10:17=E2=80=AFAM UTC+1 Agustin Cruz wrote:

Dear Bitcoin Developers,

I am writi= ng to share my proposal for a new Bitcoin Improvement Proposal (BIP) titled= =C2=A0Quantum-Resistant Address Migration Protocol (QRAMP)= . The goal of this proposal is to safeguard Bitcoin against potential futur= e quantum attacks by enforcing a mandatory migration period for funds held = in legacy Bitcoin addresses (secured by ECDSA) to quantum-resistant address= es.

The proposal outlines:

  • Reducing Vulnerabilities:=C2=A0Transitioni= ng funds to quantum-resistant schemes preemptively to eliminate the risk po= sed by quantum attacks on exposed public keys.
  • Enforcing Timelines:=C2=A0A hard migration deadline= that forces timely action, rather than relying on a gradual, voluntary mig= ration that might leave many users at risk.
  • Balancing Risks:=C2=A0Weighing the non-trivial risk of= funds being permanently locked against the potential catastrophic impact o= f a quantum attack on Bitcoin=E2=80=99s security.

Add= itionally, the proposal addresses common criticisms such as the risk of per= manent fund loss, uncertain quantum timelines, and the potential for chain = splits. It also details backwards compatibility measures, comprehensive sec= urity considerations, an extensive suite of test cases, and a reference imp= lementation plan that includes script interpreter changes, wallet software = updates, and network monitoring tools.

For your convenience= , I have published the full proposal on my GitHub repository. You can revie= w it at the following link:

Quantum-Resistant Address = Migration Protocol (QRAMP) Proposal on GitHub

I welcome= your feedback and suggestions and look forward to engaging in a constructi= ve discussion on how best to enhance the security and resilience of the Bit= coin network in the quantum computing era.

Thank you for yo= ur time and consideration.

Best regards,

Ag= ustin Cruz

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