From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VVmlZ-0000kO-Dl for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:21:17 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com designates 209.85.212.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.169; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; helo=mail-wi0-f169.google.com; Received: from mail-wi0-f169.google.com ([209.85.212.169]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1VVmlT-0002Ft-Ie for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:21:17 +0000 Received: by mail-wi0-f169.google.com with SMTP id cb5so4410892wib.4 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:21:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=6JSsXy6z5y4o72a9JMo75kHvDGDwzGgS4IzuMcQVyv4=; b=WM4ggPvWl0NGvrM4eHlX6NaRe69FD4l2RSBpTmjU9onA/CS9Ep+adSFatuBdUFo7nY a2COYo37Jrc3hD5IcXMuOOLLjbcCP2s49KFwv52uH/bwtwKQNJ8zwzEtPs5qHrWgx5Ay kqVpGaxzJu3RtSM0dvOJNwDaJcgczkYhiloSKcwouNTJGbVK1Rw24RsdAiJPnrNMolvd Ux7JpD1q2hqCoLtJFrRf2PewTieGdh9Qk6+IumtNl6pgP3zAqv2SxI1dMRMnnEB6EuGb LSU5/zuJtUfOu52aNBidk8xZAwJggv7EVqPTDSJJmLWZqI9YNb2rIGjen43jfNGVdQJ5 tzmg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmmeqcxGZJs3lNwMjKT94ttdatHO4vqVx+1kI2t6ssdz5Uig8h+Wprhzp7qSzPyJ1JFmjgr MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.104.42 with SMTP id gb10mr30557213wjb.16.1381774865016; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.164.164 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:21:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20131014180807.GA32082@netbook.cypherspace.org> References: <20130519132359.GA12366@netbook.cypherspace.org> <5199C3DE.901@gmail.com> <20131014180807.GA32082@netbook.cypherspace.org> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 14:21:04 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Garzik To: Adam Back Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: cypherspace.org] -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1VVmlT-0002Ft-Ie Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] is there a way to do bitcoin-staging? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:21:17 -0000 On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Adam Back wrote: > Its a live beta, meaning real value, real contracts. But we dont want it to > be an alt-coin with a floating value exactly, we want it to be bitcoin, but > the bleeding edge bitcoin so we want to respect the 21 million coin limit, > and allow coins to move between bitcoin and betacoin with some necessary > security related restrictions. > > There is no mining reward on the betacoin network (can be merge mined for > security), and the way you opt to move a bitcoin into the betacoin network > is to mark it as transferred in some UTXO recognized way. It cant be > reanimated, its dead. (eg spend to a specific recognized invalid address on > the bitcoin network). In this way its not really a destruction, but a move, > moving the coin from bitcoin to betacoin network. > > This respects the 21 million coin cap, and avoids betacoin bugs flowing back > and affecting bitcoin security or value-store properties. Users may buy or > swap betacoin for bitcoin to facilitate moving money back from betacoin to > bitcoin. However that is market priced so the bitcoin network is security > insulated from beta. A significant security bug in beta would cause a > market freeze, until it is rectified. Quite a neat idea... > - it avoids mindshare dilution if alternatively an alt-coin with a hit > missing feature takes off; FWIW, litecoin devs are open to having litecoin be a bit of a staging area for new bitcoin features. Obviously there is some self-interest there -- "we have new cool stuff first!" -- nevertheless, it is a live test that could demonstrate problems with new features before they land in bitcoin-stable. -- Jeff Garzik Senior Software Engineer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/