From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YDJmA-0000CJ-Hr for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 21:22:22 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.171; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; helo=mail-ob0-f171.google.com; Received: from mail-ob0-f171.google.com ([209.85.214.171]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1YDJm8-0003Yq-FD for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 21:22:22 +0000 Received: by mail-ob0-f171.google.com with SMTP id va2so20992508obc.2 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 13:22:15 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=QcEEXl/rOYHGlgkQKEq8ZKNr/kOFtDHe3ZVoHsJnLaQ=; b=eX9GDWBDCo6P+rn3zWJsVTDUUMk+nZqW2W1kKhCuw0WpiTUEHK5XBiVacZw6PqE3ah eM/Pt+WJk5vbQuFEvICfnEtYyBaylDh9xz3LxfkSIXpMVd/nrkFDG4GX8FrZViLnO490 tq3d3jw+dvHeIV+hmXrGn1UCk52rl7AHA/KN/BPYIwvukkRTdx5tEG8SulhjAOTEKqFE z5tWDgtVm4DVMSvVCjBpo5tLA27Pshpw93Aukl2FCI1z/wx2CXAwK4cRv0PaSQ/4EI5M qAh8JLHmaCXGPSD4kmfVgu/UqbIpdydmM9u86WpxvSJxqzGaPfTVLDw2IySEgFT8Qkue JsrQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmRd3XaRpRVAOxJk6TkLOh0A8s71M8i9SGHGaXzpjkv8s79F+jS7siGxGJnnrELLWm7NPxc X-Received: by 10.60.131.203 with SMTP id oo11mr19776376oeb.15.1421702535024; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 13:22:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.219.196 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 13:21:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54BD6314.60607@gmail.com> References: <2C7D6208-1921-4DDC-90FE-DB1ABE1D61DB@petertodd.org> <54BD6314.60607@gmail.com> From: Jeff Garzik Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 16:21:54 -0500 Message-ID: To: Alan Reiner Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4179b593a1cd050d07ea1e X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1YDJm8-0003Yq-FD Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP70: why Google Protocol Buffers for encoding? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 21:22:22 -0000 --047d7b4179b593a1cd050d07ea1e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Correct. I should have said "more likely to be deterministic" Bitcoin Core does not *rely* on determinism in BIP70; I was referring to recent upstream efforts to make protobufs usable in a deterministic fashion by default. On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Alan Reiner wrote: > I'm a bit confused. It's been a long time since I looked at protobuf > (and will have to dig into it soon), but I seem to recall it doesn't have > any of the determinism properties you guys just said. It is intended to > allow you to skip details of the on-the-wire representations and just send > a bunch of named fields between systems. I thought there was no guarantee > that two identical protobuf structures will get serialized identically...? > > > > > > On 01/19/2015 02:57 PM, Richard Brady wrote: > > Thanks guys, great answers. > > The design choice certainly makes a lot more sense now regardless of > whether one agrees with it or not. > > Regards, > Richard > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New Year. New Location. New Benefits. New Data Center in Ashburn, VA. > GigeNET is offering a free month of service with a new server in Ashburn. > Choose from 2 high performing configs, both with 100TB of bandwidth. > Higher redundancy.Lower latency.Increased capacity.Completely compliant.http://p.sf.net/sfu/gigenet > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing listBitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New Year. New Location. New Benefits. New Data Center in Ashburn, VA. > GigeNET is offering a free month of service with a new server in Ashburn. > Choose from 2 high performing configs, both with 100TB of bandwidth. > Higher redundancy.Lower latency.Increased capacity.Completely compliant. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/gigenet > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ --047d7b4179b593a1cd050d07ea1e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Correct.=C2=A0 I should have said "more likely to be = deterministic"=C2=A0 Bitcoin Core does not rely on determinism = in BIP70; I was referring to recent upstream efforts to make protobufs usab= le in a deterministic fashion by default.

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Alan Rei= ner <etotheipi@gmail.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
I'm a bit confused.=C2=A0 It's been a long time since I looked = at protobuf (and will have to dig into it soon), but I seem to recall it doesn't have any of the determinism properties you guys just said.=C2=A0 It is intended to allow you to skip details of the on-the-wire representations and just send a bunch of named fields between systems.=C2=A0 I thought there was no guarantee that two identical protobuf structures will get serialized identically...?
<= div class=3D"h5">




On 01/19/2015 02:57 PM, Richard Brady wrote:
Thanks guys, great answers.=C2=A0

The design choice certainly makes a lot more sense now regardless of whether one agrees with it or not.

Regards,
Richard



-----------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------
New Year. New Location. New Benefits. New Data Center in Ashburn, VA.
GigeNET is offering a free month of service with a new server in Ashburn.
Choose from 2 high performing configs, both with 100TB of bandwidth.
Higher redundancy.Lower latency.Increased capacity.Completely compliant.
http://p.sf.net/s=
fu/gigenet


_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment


-----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
New Year. New Location. New Benefits. New Data Center in Ashburn, VA.
GigeNET is offering a free month of service with a new server in Ashburn. Choose from 2 high performing configs, both with 100TB of bandwidth.
Higher redundancy.Lower latency.Increased capacity.Completely compliant. http://p.sf.net/s= fu/gigenet
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment




--
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelis= t
BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://bitpay.com/
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