From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1XmVHu-0004KN-Il for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 22:12:18 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com designates 209.85.213.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.182; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; helo=mail-ig0-f182.google.com; Received: from mail-ig0-f182.google.com ([209.85.213.182]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1XmVHt-00044L-H3 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 22:12:18 +0000 Received: by mail-ig0-f182.google.com with SMTP id hn18so4289710igb.15 for ; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:12:12 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=WD8vZtuQyFGErPuGQ8t9IgvbdyHq7a+w40N5vaodOBs=; b=NSWPmWG/0Qg0L+ZIOOWqPBtohvCgq2xVYORy3hGaD9/RxI9efS3+gxiP4CIutVXviG mzGIz668R+vZgV37RswufkDKNMcWzUl1p4m+vTMBeITiwvTMWpLYn/yR8ZosRAV/lonT H9i8qpauthZ+aenWNccRvrs556Qyv9J1o1Ds2/5Xf49bHgfEHU/cpg55sCk680fitsbf tevEpvdFpBuhA1IVxw5n4Y/uVRefYzVpzi0FClIORw0moSyxcO7GUK+Rmo6YaJTsvUQ6 Cx2AG4M0SY5+u5bw0J+ErGF78MsKjC+AmfVlprosAgN6mAziukT9yrdkVQU/yBJgUzGa 8qtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlPZjafFoImB0RGeL0nnE6wOaz0hZBXjruJ/m96pkeVh89UP3zf3UfXRypxs9oW/eMSI/wR X-Received: by 10.50.73.67 with SMTP id j3mr16719229igv.1.1415311932188; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:12:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.136.164 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 14:11:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <545BF0C2.3030201@bluematt.me> References: <20141106213215.GA12918@savin.petertodd.org> <545BF0C2.3030201@bluematt.me> From: Jeff Garzik Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 23:11:52 +0100 Message-ID: To: Matt Corallo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1XmVHt-00044L-H3 Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] The difficulty of writing consensus critical code: the SIGHASH_SINGLE bug X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 22:12:18 -0000 IMO, CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY should be included in that list, too. RE soft fork vs. hard fork: It's about this time at Mike Hearn will chime in, on the side of hard forks. Hard forks are in a sense much cleaner, and permit solving problems not otherwise solvable with a hard fork. However, hard forks clearly have risks, notably the Big Risk akin to a US Constitutional Convention: once you open the door, anything can happen, any rule no matter how "sacred" can be changed. Soft forks are not without their own risks, e.g. reducing some things to SPV levels of security. Leaning towards soft fork, but it is a good discussion to have. A poorly implemented soft fork may potentially require a hard fork to fix rollout bugs. On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Matt Corallo wrote: > Depends, without BIP62 a /lot/ of the even basic contracts that people > want to use today (or wanted to use 18 months ago) are unusable, in > fact, without BIP62, the atomic swaps suggested as important for > sidechains are not secure. While redoing Bitcoin in a hardfork is nice, > its a very long-term thing, so I'm not sure about making people wait for > a large hardfork just to use payment channels. > > Also, I echo the difficulty of writing consensus-compatible code and > highly suggest anyone with money behind an implementation that is doing > script verification in code that isnt Bitcoin Core rethink that decision. > > Matt > > On 11/06/14 21:58, Tamas Blummer wrote: >> Thanks Peter, >> >> Having tried to write a bug-for-bug compatible code with Satoshi, I can only second that it is rather close to impossible. >> >> The aim of BIP62 is noble, still it does not feel right for me to increase the complexity of the code with e.g. soft-fork-ready versioning. >> Freezing the consensus code, studying its bugs appears more appropriate to me. What we learn could define a hard fork or a better >> chain we migrate to as discussed by blockstream. >> >> Tamas Blummer > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/