From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1W80Wr-00010w-RV for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 04:44:05 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com designates 74.125.82.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.43; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; helo=mail-wg0-f43.google.com; Received: from mail-wg0-f43.google.com ([74.125.82.43]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1W80Wq-0003qS-Lm for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 04:44:05 +0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id y10so6915401wgg.10 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:43:58 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=nZELM3PNviX0ivgmzlS4xq6FnSMSNQW7D/66VwXCeok=; b=E/PDffIJtYu8/oi7i6Yw/GbKQZO1xbCQHU+6o4BwzKeO7HfF1wlDiwY/hj/mYyXwm6 426lO/X9TMGDiI4nbLkc9yGoj7/fYKcnOmEU2WKp5tmYrxhF0XY8XvkZyVztlZzQNw5d uVYrJLTClrOlKhUh85wzmmRK2KVxMUuDOjQIp+adGnKbxyxWUMe9JLuZVhmORSiIjczP WdCI2urT35IgosPlsRHgsItgKuBhN6KTMS8LlgU5JgZbbA/t9w6AsIHzol86NZaa1QQG f7mIEeWNfvGl/KkAYSfhe3cU9HkQY/IfBlHvsGDqYyvnYk9YBCu+8ofD8ESIvTW5J2Uz Z6KA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkDQZ/6OHCqwCrpfOhQXtO63p1fY58thKH0zL2TY3E94LSlWdgMMHR4U8DeB1ZGn93r5p3w MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.182.226 with SMTP id eh2mr565878wic.36.1390884238355; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.2.164 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:43:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 23:43:58 -0500 Message-ID: From: Jeff Garzik To: Stephane Brossier Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e016347f0f3811b04f1007876 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1W80Wq-0003qS-Lm Cc: Bitcoin Dev , Pierre-Alexandre Meyer Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Extension for BIP-0070 to support recurring payments X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 04:44:06 -0000 --089e016347f0f3811b04f1007876 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, recurring payments and subscriptions is a frequently-requested feature. It needs a new BIP. Here is an outline: The situation is somewhat analogous to HTML5 local storage. The remote (merchant) wants to initiate a persistent behavior. This is bitcoin, so we have a "push" model for payment, and the user has complete control. The merchant can, at most, send a "subscription request." The user is responsible for making on-time payments after that point. Centralized services like coinbase.com or blockchain.info will have an easy time of it. An automated program on their backend, sending payments as needed, is easy and direct. More inventive services might employ multisig transactions, generating and signing one signature of a TX, then sending that TX to the human for further signing and publishing. A few competing vendors could offer bots that provide this signing service. Decentralized, standalone wallet clients will be somewhat troublesome. We can store a local subscription request, and send recurring payments... if the wallet app is running. If not, the user will be missing payments, that perhaps they intended to make (rent!). Each of these solutions can be cancelled at any time by the user. As such, a courtesy "subscription cancelled" message sent to the merchant is recommended. User controls the usage of their money at all times, the way things should be. And finally, you do not want to make it /too easy/ to send money over and over again. From a human-interface perspective, a textual reminder to send money might be preferred over actual recurring payment automation: reminder email + manual spend inserts a bit of additional human thought and review into the process, with all that entails. -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ --089e016347f0f3811b04f1007876 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, recurring payments and subscriptions i= s a frequently-requested feature. =A0It needs a new BIP. =A0Here is an outl= ine:

The situation is somewhat analogous to HTML5 local storage. =A0= The remote (merchant) wants to initiate a persistent behavior.=A0 This is b= itcoin, so we have a "push" model for payment, and the user has c= omplete control.=A0 The merchant can, at most, send a "subscription re= quest."=A0 The user is responsible for making on-time payments after t= hat point.

Centralized services like coinbase.com<= /a> or blockchain.info will have an = easy time of it.=A0 An automated program on their backend, sending payments= as needed, is easy and direct.

More inventive services might employ multisig transactions, gener= ating and signing one signature of a TX, then sending that TX to the human = for further signing and publishing.=A0 A few competing vendors could offer = bots that provide this signing service.

Decentralized, standalone wallet clients will be somewhat trouble= some.=A0 We can store a local subscription request, and send recurring paym= ents...=A0 if the wallet app is running.=A0 If not, the user will be missin= g payments, that perhaps they intended to make (rent!).

Each of these solutions can be cancelled at any time by the = user.=A0 As such, a courtesy "subscription cancelled" message sen= t to the merchant is recommended.=A0 User controls the usage of their money= at all times, the way things should be.

And finally, you do not want to make it /too easy/ to = send money over and over again.=A0 From a human-interface perspective, a te= xtual reminder to send money might be preferred over actual recurring payme= nt automation: reminder email + manual spend inserts a bit of additional hu= man thought and review into the process, with all that entails.

--
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open so= urce evangelist
BitPay, Inc. =A0 =A0 =A0= https://bitpay.com/
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