From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UjCBZ-0006qi-0D for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:35:17 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com designates 209.85.128.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.128.48; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; helo=mail-qe0-f48.google.com; Received: from mail-qe0-f48.google.com ([209.85.128.48]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1UjCBY-0003j4-8t for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:35:16 +0000 Received: by mail-qe0-f48.google.com with SMTP id 2so348205qea.7 for ; Sun, 02 Jun 2013 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=/LG3MP+PHsjTfqJsFUNPRQ8X/poWANrdGla7ChsXKMg=; b=m1bV5kS3Z5mJxjS3clTPx04O2TRdMqbsxuL8LZ3DUJBj1j9GAQCjZMGtIxecRqsSGq 5v23dT7mHon+nRMtS9B3SAslafd38IMa7YpNOdJTcXbMIEogFgoWhignqo0YdY0p+Rpu QXIJeFcDA9tGF0C8B3ypWyDsQ6TYw5pw1zUfQ8Gpvij67rTy/yjDesF858MOxXtS8dbC NrDgu7vJ2ujVGtfVDGnTB8MH1RWHnwKfXVan5AS2epoEf3V/6Fk6B8u8ohlFPSKUEeRr XcRK1Z1fXsvCKX0vBVUVhvdIaaQB+lciXsyiRSF3LM6oyCLQURMUKh5UW1pj6SFp+z/T Iicw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.198.202 with SMTP id ep10mr6471621qcb.31.1370194510719; Sun, 02 Jun 2013 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.2.102 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Jun 2013 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130602061327.GA14148@savin> References: <20130601193036.GA13873@savin> <38A06794-B6B4-45F3-99C1-24B08434536D@gmail.com> <20130602061327.GA14148@savin> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 13:35:10 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Garzik To: Peter Todd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkv/l0vPuU1ASq7I6lYnWhKPKGW9syXvMy+2Qwa81P0bzf2PrbfWM0jp5QTAtgdYXPeML8Z X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1UjCBY-0003j4-8t Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: soft-fork to make anyone-can-spend outputs unspendable for 100 blocks X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:35:17 -0000 On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Peter Todd wrote: > I'd say we tell people to sacrifice to (provably) unspendable for now > and do a soft-fork later if there is real demand for this stuff in the > future. That seems fair. In general, people are actively bloating the UTXO set with unspendable outputs (that cannot be 100% proven unspendable). Provably unspendable seems like an improvement on long term UTXO health. It is a fair criticism that this inches the incentives, a bit, towards timestamping and other non-currency uses. But those uses (a) cannot be prevented and (b) have already been automated anyway (e.g. the python upload/download tools stored in-chain). I do think the overwhelming majority of users are invested in bitcoin-the-currency (or bitcoin-the-commodity, take your pick), i.e. the value proposition. That's our 98% use case. Given the relative volumes of traffic, timestamping/data storage/messaging is essentially getting a free ride. So IMO it is worth continuing to explore /disincentives/ for use of the blockchain for data storage and messaging, for the rare times where a clear currency-or-data-storage incentive is available. -- Jeff Garzik Senior Software Engineer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/