From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1XF3sW-0004sP-3Q for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 16:15:52 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com designates 209.85.223.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.223.179; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; helo=mail-ie0-f179.google.com; Received: from mail-ie0-f179.google.com ([209.85.223.179]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1XF3sQ-0004lj-Ex for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 16:15:52 +0000 Received: by mail-ie0-f179.google.com with SMTP id rl12so3156435iec.38 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:15:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=AZNA4Qlzrx8NjjVywCx1HcRDw3PwA9951ph4NQxmsDE=; b=IFnYgUa0NcvkOSZkC3RWPKsOG0dTKM5YOF2tnsSZwgesI99yWDO2o0GgAclzbegAKI vcvTkTW5aFfkC5qckoqr3Li0+3pPoLeqcbRI8ZIWHae5hTO/I8ZqYGw5AIrDIi5W2kkf UPYRJUqENE8KYoXcS7J4Wtf1HRe1zJFvd2LU+e3djeNjsZmX3nZEDDCwwun0taIA+J7p hAdKeQ7+TO+iPtrMAGy1i0ks1Vrz8ZOeutPTE1pYBVI8J0hI1EWWcFzTfUBOGBPx8wHM GR6K9eqblIvm8JlzQqnqZIrIz6/hFrkVMgEsol69EWcyHC77ATLhtYU/JTRnfeA1xVjh bxTg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmUixCJQYwDvwlATrvQ3ez1lw2bIBg1Vp4KrfDup72CA1ZLRnpa++Y6TlUknDnr4APVHAkg X-Received: by 10.42.48.197 with SMTP id t5mr16568466icf.11.1407341740968; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:15:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.10.78 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Aug 2014 09:15:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <63a80796-609e-43f5-9280-4cd8cf5d2648@email.android.com> References: <53E1A8AF.4030206@thinlink.com> <53E23F49.3020605@thinlink.com> <63a80796-609e-43f5-9280-4cd8cf5d2648@email.android.com> From: Jeff Garzik Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 12:15:20 -0400 Message-ID: To: Peter Todd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e8e3e8c639e04fff84889 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1XF3sQ-0004lj-Ex Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] deterministic transaction expiration X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 16:15:52 -0000 --90e6ba6e8e3e8c639e04fff84889 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 A fork is not necessarily required, if you are talking about information that deals primarily with pre-consensus mempool behavior. You can make a "network TX" with some information that is digitally signed, yet discarded before it reaches miners. On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Peter Todd wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > > > On 6 August 2014 08:17:02 GMT-07:00, Christian Decker < > decker.christian@gmail.com> wrote: > >+1 for the new field, overloading fields with new meaning is definitely > >not > >a good idea. > > To add a new field the best way to do it is create a new, parallel, tx > format where fields are committed by merkle radix tree in an extensible and > provable way. You'd then commit to that tree with a mandatory OP_RETURN > output in the last txout, or with a new merkle root. > > Changing the tx format itself in a hard-fork is needlessly disruptive, and > in this case, wastes opportunities for improvement. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: APG v1.1.1 > > iQFQBAEBCAA6BQJT4kzQMxxQZXRlciBUb2RkIChsb3cgc2VjdXJpdHkga2V5KSA8 > cGV0ZUBwZXRlcnRvZGQub3JnPgAKCRAZnIM7qOfwhamzCAC+zRaXRodP63+ke3K+ > Viapiepvk4uIOlqxqtMB2O0zWcyu2+xCJDiRPykK/6HLDBeFDEC9/dGK8++Lovl6 > //qZ340LOPFlgT2kYy9E5h/yX469fhtsWhBCv2K47fWwkMS0S/0r4SQnCkbt2R2c > 4dQjkoldhw6rNMBTUmwvhSlL30KsT/msWTZiX7DW/YjfOzezEJzy+mYyKp9Sk7ba > 1fOiBXORk7mNOs7sTYTvje3sqEGpGTOLP08cY/RCEvl6bG8mHkPqwiojq+3biHFP > RsoBVu1f5cbnU7Wq0gPNdVnQssnEQDadyTX8gT0Wze7PuVyaZT2mXFZBKzSHuLy2 > sJKN > =oPSo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ --90e6ba6e8e3e8c639e04fff84889 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A fork is not necessarily required, if you are talking abo= ut information that deals primarily with pre-consensus mempool behavior.=C2= =A0 You can make a "network TX" with some information that is dig= itally signed, yet discarded before it reaches miners.


On Wed,= Aug 6, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> w= rote:
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Hash: SHA256



On 6 August 2014 08:17:02 GMT-07:00, Christian Decker <decker.christian@gmail.com> wrote:
>+1 for the new field, overloading fields with new meaning is definitely=
>not
>a good idea.

To add a new field the best way to do it is create a new, parallel, t= x format where fields are committed by merkle radix tree in an extensible a= nd provable way. You'd then commit to that tree with a mandatory OP_RET= URN output in the last txout, or with a new merkle root.

Changing the tx format itself in a hard-fork is needlessly disruptive, and = in this case, wastes opportunities for improvement.
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--
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin = core developer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0https://bitpay.com/
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