From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1W82Ta-0001oF-Ff for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 06:48:50 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com designates 74.125.82.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.44; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; helo=mail-wg0-f44.google.com; Received: from mail-wg0-f44.google.com ([74.125.82.44]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1W82TY-0005SU-Tf for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 06:48:50 +0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f44.google.com with SMTP id l18so6903377wgh.23 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:48:42 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=msYubXNjs6n21SAV4fozCjyg07405oIOcOKNNaGHQWo=; b=iUpBov7RrK6zHfRID+IaTBsX7IF1g7hTWA3GD01Ao6wSCUpNf+KwCaZtEBEUqIXL+g n0oq9fCJZKMbyDwztToSlHg0mw6EOW9kluafFrZccqIOuieMZBaKuR2cbP1wJ7z9LG+K H3axfFbLzzPKU9vnsOmhSPUMM0Qlg1nRn+qEM3hxxv7WJ8F8pR8mwprLp8TP7YuzSiWY RcTbII9yR8uXMgkVV/i3lQ3DB8ckJBgG4XZ/RBpOzQv9P8Rq95S3VRmtTQ4omq4yuq+4 12CXB1hNPTrOdJCM5AjTfsGPr2rz08d3jFQKQY7bTtK4HjR/NpOLEILRTLVDFdPgNMMV OhNA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk0nUYEwBqZMuNR2zE31Xo5lzeNGavq0cHYsEBIox1Cf/O5bikzhu+NQX3fPNHYizothP7h MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.79.131 with SMTP id j3mr22824494wjx.17.1390891722674; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:48:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.2.164 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:48:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 01:48:42 -0500 Message-ID: From: Jeff Garzik To: Odinn Cyberguerrilla Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd6bad40d293604f10237b2 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1W82TY-0005SU-Tf Cc: Bitcoin Dev , Stephane Brossier , Pierre-Alexandre Meyer Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Extension for BIP-0070 to support recurring payments X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 06:48:50 -0000 --047d7bd6bad40d293604f10237b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Let's keep fund raising off this mailing list, please. PS bounties don't work. On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Odinn Cyberguerrilla < odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net> wrote: > Greatly appreciate seeing this discussion occur. This is something that > potentially could be supported through a bounty - possibly a process BIP? > > Possibly related: https://gist.github.com/ABISprotocol/8515891 > > > Yes, recurring payments and subscriptions is a frequently-requested > > feature. It needs a new BIP. Here is an outline: > > > > The situation is somewhat analogous to HTML5 local storage. The remote > > (merchant) wants to initiate a persistent behavior. This is bitcoin, so > > we > > have a "push" model for payment, and the user has complete control. The > > merchant can, at most, send a "subscription request." The user is > > responsible for making on-time payments after that point. > > > > Centralized services like coinbase.com or blockchain.info will have an > > easy > > time of it. An automated program on their backend, sending payments as > > needed, is easy and direct. > > > > More inventive services might employ multisig transactions, generating > and > > signing one signature of a TX, then sending that TX to the human for > > further signing and publishing. A few competing vendors could offer bots > > that provide this signing service. > > > > Decentralized, standalone wallet clients will be somewhat troublesome. > We > > can store a local subscription request, and send recurring payments... > if > > the wallet app is running. If not, the user will be missing payments, > > that > > perhaps they intended to make (rent!). > > > > Each of these solutions can be cancelled at any time by the user. As > > such, > > a courtesy "subscription cancelled" message sent to the merchant is > > recommended. User controls the usage of their money at all times, the > way > > things should be. > > > > And finally, you do not want to make it /too easy/ to send money over and > > over again. From a human-interface perspective, a textual reminder to > > send > > money might be preferred over actual recurring payment automation: > > reminder > > email + manual spend inserts a bit of additional human thought and review > > into the process, with all that entails. > > > > -- > > Jeff Garzik > > Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist > > BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable > > security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key > > security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import > > a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk_______________________________________________ > > Bitcoin-development mailing list > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > > > > -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ --047d7bd6bad40d293604f10237b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Let's keep fund raising off this mailing list, please.= =A0 PS bounties don't work.

On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Odinn Cybergue= rrilla <odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net> wrote= :
Greatly appreciate seeing this discussion oc= cur. =A0This is something that
potentially could be supported through a bounty - possibly a process BIP?
Possibly related: https://gist.github.com/ABISprotocol/8515891

> Yes, recurring payments and subscriptions is a frequently-requested > feature. =A0It needs a new BIP. =A0Here is an outline:
>
> The situation is somewhat analogous to HTML5 local storage. =A0The rem= ote
> (merchant) wants to initiate a persistent behavior. =A0This is bitcoin= , so
> we
> have a "push" model for payment, and the user has complete c= ontrol. =A0The
> merchant can, at most, send a "subscription request." =A0The= user is
> responsible for making on-time payments after that point.
>
> Centralized services like coinbase.com or blockchain.info will have an
> easy
> time of it. =A0An automated program on their backend, sending payments= as
> needed, is easy and direct.
>
> More inventive services might employ multisig transactions, generating= and
> signing one signature of a TX, then sending that TX to the human for > further signing and publishing. =A0A few competing vendors could offer= bots
> that provide this signing service.
>
> Decentralized, standalone wallet clients will be somewhat troublesome.= =A0We
> can store a local subscription request, and send recurring payments...= =A0if
> the wallet app is running. =A0If not, the user will be missing payment= s,
> that
> perhaps they intended to make (rent!).
>
> Each of these solutions can be cancelled at any time by the user. =A0A= s
> such,
> a courtesy "subscription cancelled" message sent to the merc= hant is
> recommended. =A0User controls the usage of their money at all times, t= he way
> things should be.
>
> And finally, you do not want to make it /too easy/ to send money over = and
> over again. =A0From a human-interface perspective, a textual reminder = to
> send
> money might be preferred over actual recurring payment automation:
> reminder
> email + manual spend inserts a bit of additional human thought and rev= iew
> into the process, with all that entails.
>
> --
> Jeff Garzik
> Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
> BitPay, Inc. =A0 =A0 =A0https://bitpay.com/
> ------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------
> WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable<= br> > security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key > security issues and trends. =A0Skip the complicated setup - simply imp= ort
> a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D123612991&= amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk_______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-d= evelopment@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitco= in-development
>





--
Jeff Garzik=
Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc. =A0 = =A0 =A0https://bitpay.com= /
--047d7bd6bad40d293604f10237b2--