From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5yRt-0006G4-6Z for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 15:43:21 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com designates 209.85.218.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.218.47; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; helo=mail-oi0-f47.google.com; Received: from mail-oi0-f47.google.com ([209.85.218.47]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Z5yRs-0007W6-2y for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 15:43:21 +0000 Received: by oigx81 with SMTP id x81so82738343oig.1 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:43:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=cAqGLGwgxDuYw67AC+gf/TfKnO7uk5ZjU8w+GdOPaxk=; b=ZSxXrnVippRON74iNBVegeaopUKPTyE8AGWAhfOWmW1k1vwTe28mrz1x68BHmLR1rD 9fH/AFhXzPIFoZo733f+HnlMoGtE7kPn3KYd4G/XTs0F5h/hUBr7rUksa70JEZ837BHp ZuYZNE1h0Zc7PzDnRomE3USI6IzIxDDCRghCeegKNOqIILZAoy+7JaxxZfgbOJl73bU6 4sg4VD1HATi4F0GgfEZNuMf53rTaOSJxOarPkBNrzD5eWrVMzWT1Y75s2ui1OwUNGAuK tGdYy5hzA0X4L4OqnmgXhDXGzYj3pt56fe99uMx/HEB2WNeFCbRyQhKYoVImt4UmQBkL D+gg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnLpI7hUpTyJ28B9XEkD4KsQqzHSPwTvvjLrRsT4rtos6l4dHrjD8hzAF81Em5J5jtEZd/d X-Received: by 10.202.107.12 with SMTP id g12mr7015349oic.120.1434728594657; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:43:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.108.149 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:42:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20150619134408.GB27280@savin.petertodd.org> References: <20150619103959.GA32315@savin.petertodd.org> <20150619134408.GB27280@savin.petertodd.org> From: Jeff Garzik Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:42:53 -0700 Message-ID: To: Peter Todd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140326a3bee270518e0c8ca X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.2 AWL AWL: Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address X-Headers-End: 1Z5yRs-0007W6-2y Cc: bitcoin-development Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] F2Pool has enabled full replace-by-fee X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 15:43:21 -0000 --001a1140326a3bee270518e0c8ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 6:44 AM, Peter Todd wrote: > Having said that... honestly, zeroconf is pretty broken already. Only > with pretty heroic measures like connecting to a significant fraction of > the Bitcoin network at once, as well as connecting to getblocktemplate > supporting miners to figure out what transactions are being mined, are > services having any hope of avoiding getting ripped off. For the average > user their wallets do a terrible job of showing whether or not an > This is no excuse for further degrading the overall network security. There are many issues to address in the bitcoin ecosystem. It negatively impacts users to roll out "scorched earth" replace-by-fee given today's ecosystem. Yes, zero conf security is poor. An outright attack on zero conf degrades user security even more. -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ --001a1140326a3bee270518e0c8ca Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 6:44 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petert= odd.org> wrote:
Having said that... honestly, ze= roconf is pretty broken already. Only
with pretty heroic measures like connecting to a significant fraction of the Bitcoin network at once, as well as connecting to getblocktemplate
supporting miners to figure out what transactions are being mined, are
services having any hope of avoiding getting ripped off. For the average user their wallets do a terrible job of showing whether or not an

This is no excuse for further degrading th= e overall network security.

There are many issues = to address in the bitcoin ecosystem.=C2=A0 It negatively impacts users to r= oll out "scorched earth" replace-by-fee given today's ecosyst= em.

Yes, zero conf security is poor.=C2=A0 An outr= ight attack on zero conf degrades user security even more.
=
--
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core= developer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<= a href=3D"https://bitpay.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://bitpay.com/
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