From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YqNid-0003Ay-OR for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 07 May 2015 15:28:11 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com designates 209.85.218.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.218.50; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; helo=mail-oi0-f50.google.com; Received: from mail-oi0-f50.google.com ([209.85.218.50]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1YqNiY-00057T-1p for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 07 May 2015 15:28:11 +0000 Received: by oica37 with SMTP id a37so36285911oic.0 for ; Thu, 07 May 2015 08:28:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=1fv3JH4uFM/xrdTgeQOLkB0wmWyYMci/Uu59uFEJ78U=; b=Pzt+157XUj++EhApAYKsydrZjnfkREMeePrFMl8V8Ot/0g3nKwvhGev1lGBQa1tcIf R7EbhhhCVE8iQCuRQPJpbQ6MeJ97qT2AjJznwQ9gvVAhuKOT/0FS/MedjM8bbYYxKi4q UOodO1n0JeaILSnIkswHXaXs6xrf7Z/Vo2JWviVNcJ1T/U76bn3tCR3GO6zhR3BXuMer ANK3LUgjqaCoudDX5ev29vNpPL4ivyCwBiTng8C51zZyWNQpdj3Ql0jTiCaJXR1L9reN GBpNPWxxqhyQAms6SXR8nTtciELH83NOX328TnRrvAKo+kttzVUiHLxbZiE0bsOcy3V3 e3uQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlyMoclstAKLsxHf6QObsT5jzYU5JMIqk2coNrSdPJNBwG/wyc1E87IGTfKCFBF6VDJe7UU X-Received: by 10.182.75.230 with SMTP id f6mr3669880obw.65.1431012480464; Thu, 07 May 2015 08:28:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.108.149 with HTTP; Thu, 7 May 2015 08:27:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <554B81E2.6070607@localhost.local> References: <554A91BE.6060105@bluematt.me> <554B78DE.20600@localhost.local> <554B81E2.6070607@localhost.local> From: Jeff Garzik Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 11:27:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: Justus Ranvier Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0153809c915b5705157f8eaa X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1YqNiY-00057T-1p Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 15:28:11 -0000 --089e0153809c915b5705157f8eaa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Justus Ranvier wrote: > To be extremely specific: should Bitcoin development intenionally > limit the network's capabilities to leave room for other projects, or > should Bitcoin attempt to be the best system possible and let the > other projects try to keep up as best they can? > Avoid such narrow, binary thinking. Referencing the problem described in http://gavinandresen.ninja/why-increasing-the-max-block-size-is-urgent (not the solution - block size change - just the problem, tx/block Poisson mismatch) This problem - block creation is bursty - is fundamental to bitcoin. Raising block size does not fix this problem (as [1] notes), but merely kicks the can down the road a bit, by hiding it from users a bit longer. Bitcoin is a settlement system, at the most fundamental engineering level. It will never be an instant payment system for all the world's coffees (or all the world's stock trades). It is left to "Layer 2" projects to engineer around bitcoin's gaps, to produce an instant, secure, trustless, egalitarian payment system using the bitcoin token. [1] also notes this. It is therefore not a binary decision of leaving room for other projects, or not. Layer-2 projects are critical to the success of bitcoin, and complement bitcoin. [1] http://gavinandresen.ninja/it-must-be-done-but-is-not-a-panacea Holistic thinking implies you build a full-stack system with bitcoin --089e0153809c915b5705157f8eaa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= hu, May 7, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Justus Ranvier <justusranvier@riseup= .net> wrote:
To be extremely specific: should Bitcoin development intenionally
limit the network's capabilities to leave room for other projects, or should Bitcoin attempt to be the best system possible and let the
other projects try to keep up as best they can?

= =C2=A0
Avoid such narrow, binary thinking.

= Referencing the problem described in http://gavinandresen.ninja/why= -increasing-the-max-block-size-is-urgent=C2=A0 (not the solution - bloc= k size change - just the problem, tx/block Poisson mismatch)

<= div>This problem - block creation is bursty - is fundamental to bitcoin.=C2= =A0 Raising block size does not fix this problem (as [1] notes), but merely= kicks the can down the road a bit, by hiding it from users a bit longer.
Bitcoin is a settlement system, at the most fundamental en= gineering level.=C2=A0 It will never be an instant payment system for all t= he world's coffees (or all the world's stock trades).=C2=A0 It is l= eft to "Layer 2" projects to engineer around bitcoin's gaps, = to produce an instant, secure, trustless, egalitarian payment system using = the bitcoin token.=C2=A0 [1] also notes this.

It is there= fore not a binary decision of leaving room for other projects, or not.=C2= =A0 Layer-2 projects are critical to the success of bitcoin, and complement= bitcoin.






[1] <= a href=3D"http://gavinandresen.ninja/it-must-be-done-but-is-not-a-panacea">= http://gavinandresen.ninja/it-must-be-done-but-is-not-a-panacea

Holistic thinking implies you build a full-stack syst= em with bitcoin


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