From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A15E5BF0 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:15:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pf0-f173.google.com (mail-pf0-f173.google.com [209.85.192.173]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 278AD16A for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:15:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pf0-f173.google.com with SMTP id z11so11396978pfk.4 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:15:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=gvPOjnyJZ0myWenc018WwjYgRyKYuPl9Mx0XGFnHe/U=; b=kZLQ4uDHhCzmE1weCsX1stYdxWS0dbSdc2/GfyCbira7BUz0tI0GiIu6MvYDUoaX6K V4qmCc2vAZKI01blTZMqecCfJ0qtg7xETF0ysOJMuDVwH8F97H9cXs2pFb1yLHijs6Vl DVJ1JZ0aWg5JD/pWIelsHaNUyTnJruG/r7RGHq5Uif8YOo1xpDcs+eXROrjJirGs2REd pr1fWg4b3+R6ZOrVxRd0BggpgHr7ueISY89JwOtSb4+jtH/Hdi5PrTrwcyjl96Rw+epE gxUpvRQXED4U/bc0+8uIpx2USK/nlyNkN2jEDRlPJ0Emszt2PnHVeitFLoYSaWnNcdMy dM9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=gvPOjnyJZ0myWenc018WwjYgRyKYuPl9Mx0XGFnHe/U=; b=VZEXoxwfnh2RDhVMv0iTVr1Act7fYsM00wWgpuNvGBV77Vc6t01hCc7dit7d2UiRm0 s8q4UDhBTVtdNE1jUsZiz295ln4SMdfalgWqM5YBmLTuRw+r7X+q0BR9r+sYnClyhwjY OEfxop5lHq1JllvYD1CB1IHG26IeIYcMHqlJgFj8BDxk73k9cllFnzD5NnqCoUIBQdDj WAhIi0prXQiZa6s1YAxyuGbmQL9PNsnDOIoMEI6BFgMqd4jLMutxJhW2EfN73NJ6JcFB RT1XJzNPwPQkkAR84ZDtexQL+tdUoSbLcagXNZFjmyG9fw+GXOssFRbmtWhbOGAy0hc8 H9Eg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaW6Vayyf7thi14vGGPTskBVwccH4yKAmo67RIKv6e/o6eu+331t CFj632vyippRKwPYul/V0TtTAOuw6tbpbDo3rS3Tvw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+TIfBYXFHwuopHF8t2Po5M8RXZK4OKzx0a4zhk4dCRy6x+R1sFVjFpKCyiDft4nrKjzpb1cS3ETru0Y3bwnxKk= X-Received: by 10.98.162.26 with SMTP id m26mr9354387pff.0.1509380146495; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:15:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.179.202 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.179.202 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:15:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Danny Thorpe Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:15:45 -0700 Message-ID: To: Moral Agent , Bitcoin Dev Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043be61c768379055cc5f38a" X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,TRACKER_ID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Visually Differentiable - Bitcoin Addresses X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:15:47 -0000 --f403043be61c768379055cc5f38a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Humans are very visually oriented, recognizing differences in images more easily than differences in text. What about generating an image based on the bytes of an address, using something like identicon, used by gravatar? Any small change to the text input produces a significantly different image. -Danny On Oct 30, 2017 7:43 AM, "Moral Agent via bitcoin-dev" < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > If you are going to rely on human verification of addresses, the best way > might be map it to words. > > For example, with a 6000 word list, a 25 byte address (with a checksum) > could be mapped to 16 words like this: > > vocally acquire removed unfounded > euphemism sanctuary sectional driving > entree freckles aloof vertebrae > scribble surround prelaw effort > > In my opinion, that is much faster to verify than this: > > 13gQFTYHuAcfnZjXo2NFsy1E8JGSLwXHCZ > > or > > bc1qrp33g0q5c5txsp9arysrx4k6zdkfs4nce4xj0gdcccefvpysxf3qccfmv3 > > Although I really do love Bech32. > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 9:13 AM, shiva sitamraju via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> For example bc1qeklep85ntjz4605drds6aww9u0qr46qzrv5xswd35uhjuj8ahfcqgf6hak >> in 461e8a4aa0a0e75c06602c505bd7aa06e7116ba5cd98fd6e046e8cbeb00379d6 is >> 62 bytes ! This is very very long. This will create lot of usability >> problems in >> >> - Blockexplorers (atleast user should be visually able to compare in a >> transaction having multiple outputs which one his address) >> - Mobiles >> - Payment terminals >> >> From my limited understanding, the purpose of inventing a bitcoin address >> format is for usability and ease of identification (versus a ECDSA public >> key), While I get the error/checksum capabilities Bech32 brings, any user >> would prefer a 20 byte address with a checksum over an address that would >> wrap several lines !! >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Ben Thompson < >> thompson.benedictjames@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Checking the first few bytes of a Bitcoin Address should not be >>> considered sufficient for ensuring that it is correct as it takes less than >>> a second to generate a 3 character vanity address that matches the first 3 >>> characters of an address. >>> >>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2017, 11:44 shiva sitamraju via bitcoin-dev, < >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> When I copy and paste bitcoin address, I double check the first few >>>> bytes, to make sure I copied the correct one. This is to make sure some >>>> rogue software is not changing the address, or I incorrectly pasted the >>>> wrong address. >>>> >>>> >>>> With Bech32 address, its seems like in this department we are taking as >>>> step in the backward direction. With the traditional address, I could >>>> compare first few bytes like 1Ko or 1L3. With bech32, bc1. is all I can see >>>> and compare which is likely to be same anyway. Note that most users will >>>> only compare the first few bytes only (since addresses themselves are very >>>> long and will overflow in a mobile text box). >>>> >>>> Is there anyway to make the Bech32 addresses format more visually >>>> distinct (atleast the first few bytes) ? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list >>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --f403043be61c768379055cc5f38a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Humans are very visually oriented, recognizing difference= s in images more easily than differences in text.

What about generating an image based on the bytes of an= address, using something like identicon, used by gravatar? Any small chang= e to the text input produces a significantly different image.

-Danny

On Oct 30, 2017 7:43 AM, "Moral= Agent via bitcoin-dev" <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
If you are= going to rely on human verification of addresses, the best way might be ma= p it to words.

For example, with a 6000 word list, a 25 = byte address (with a checksum) could be mapped to 16 words like this:
<= br>
vocally =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 acquire =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0removed =C2=A0 =C2=A0 unfounded
euphemism= =C2=A0 =C2=A0sanctuary =C2=A0 =C2=A0sectional =C2=A0 =C2=A0 driving
<= div>entree =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0freckles =C2=A0 =C2=A0aloof =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 vertebrae
scribble =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0s= urround =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prelaw =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 effort
=

In my opinion, that is much faster to verif= y than this:

13gQFTYHuAcfnZjXo2NFsy1E8JGSLwXH= CZ

or

bc1qrp33g0q5c5t= xsp9arysrx4k6zdkfs4nce4xj0gdcccefvpysxf3qccfmv3
Although I really do love Bech32.

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 9:13 AM, sh= iva sitamraju via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
For example bc1qeklep85ntjz4605drds6a= ww9u0qr46qzrv5xswd35uhjuj8ahfcqgf6hak in 461e8a4aa0a0e75c06602c50= 5bd7aa06e7116ba5cd98fd6e046e8cbeb00379d6 is 62 bytes ! This is ve= ry very long. This will create lot of usability problems in
=
- Blockexplorers (atleast user should be visually able to compare= in a transaction having multiple outputs which one his address)
-= Mobiles
- Payment terminals

From my limited underst= anding, the purpose of inventing a bitcoin address format is for usability = and ease of identification (versus a ECDSA public key), While I get the err= or/checksum capabilities Bech32 brings, any user would prefer a 20 byte add= ress with a checksum=C2=A0 over an address that would wrap several lines !!=


On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Ben = Thompson <thompson.benedictjames@gmail.com> wrote:
Checking the = first few bytes of a Bitcoin Address should not be considered sufficient fo= r ensuring that it is correct as it takes less than a second to generate a = 3 character vanity address that matches the first 3 characters of an addres= s.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017, 11:44 sh= iva sitamraju via bitcoin-dev, <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.o= rg> wrote:
=
Hi,

When I copy and paste bitcoin address, I= double check the first few bytes, to make sure I copied the correct one. T= his is to make sure some rogue software is not changing the address, or I i= ncorrectly pasted the wrong address.


With Bech32 address, = its seems like in this department we are taking as step in the backward dir= ection. With the traditional address, I could compare first few bytes like = 1Ko or 1L3. With bech32, bc1. is all I can see and compare which is likely = to be same anyway. Note that most users will only compare the first few byt= es only (since addresses themselves are very long and will overflow in a mo= bile text box).

Is there anyway to make the Bech32 addresses f= ormat more visually distinct (atleast the first few bytes) ?
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org= /mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org= /mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev



_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org= /mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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