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From: Allen Piscitello <allen.piscitello@gmail.com>
To: Dave Scotese <dscotese@litmocracy.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] We need to fix the block withholding attack
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:25:17 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJfRnm6akNXAQkXtPNu_bVFA7uuDUmeQ6L9oONq06Jo7r=wMmA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAGLBAhdqKLgK09s5Mp6C4nv0k4hHBYM5c8NpgP5G7J110NseqQ@mail.gmail.com>

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How could this possibly be enforced?

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Dave Scotese via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> There have been no decent objections to altering the block-selection
> mechanism (when two block solutions appear at nearly the same time) as
> described at
>
> http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/39226
>
> Key components are:
>
>    - Compute BitcoinDaysDestroyed using only transactions that have been
>    in your mempool for some time as oBTCDD ("old BTCDD").
>    - Use "nearly the same time" to mean separated in time by your guess
>    of the average duration of block propagation times.
>    - When two block solutions come in at nearly the same time, build on
>    the one that has the most oBTCDD, rather than the one that came in first.
>
> The goal of this change is to reduce the profitability of withholding
> block solutions by severely reducing the chances that a block solved a
> while ago can orphan one solved recently.  "Came in first" seems more
> easily gamed than "most oBTCDD".  As I wrote there, "*old coins* is
> always a dwindling resource and *global nodes willing to help cheat* is
> probably a growing one."
>
> I will write a BIP if anyone agrees it's a good idea.
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Ivan Brightly via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev <
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>> Far more concerning is network propagation effects between large and
>>> small miners. For that class of issues, if you are in an environemnt
>>> where selfish mining is possible - a fairly flat, easily DoS/sybil
>>> attacked network topology - the profitability difference between small
>>> and large miners even *without* attacks going on is a hugely worrying
>>> problem. OTOH, if you're blocksize is small enough that propagation time
>>> is negligable to profitability, then selfish mining attacks with <30%
>>> hashing power aren't much of a concern - they'll be naturally defeated
>>> by anti-DoS/anti-sybil measures.
>>>
>>
>> Let's agree that one factor in mining profitability is bandwidth/network
>> reliability/stability. Why focus on that vs electricity contracts or
>> vertically integrated chip manufacturers? Surely, sufficient network
>> bandwidth is a more broadly available commodity than <$0.02/kwh
>> electricity, for example. I'm not sure that your stranded hydroelectric
>> miner is any more desirable than thousands of dorm room miners with access
>> to 10gbit university connections and free electricity.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my value. Do you need a
> techie?
> I own Litmocracy <http://www.litmocracy.com> and Meme Racing
> <http://www.memeracing.net> (in alpha).
> I'm the webmaster for The Voluntaryist <http://www.voluntaryist.com>
> which now accepts Bitcoin.
> I also code for The Dollar Vigilante <http://dollarvigilante.com/>.
> "He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules" - Satoshi
> Nakamoto
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-12-29 19:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-12-19 18:42 [bitcoin-dev] We need to fix the block withholding attack Peter Todd
2015-12-19 19:30 ` Bob McElrath
2015-12-19 20:03 ` jl2012
2015-12-20  3:34 ` Chris Priest
2015-12-20  3:36   ` Matt Corallo
2015-12-20  3:43     ` Chris Priest
2015-12-20  4:44       ` Peter Todd
2015-12-26  8:12         ` Multipool Admin
2015-12-27  4:10           ` Geir Harald Hansen
2015-12-28 19:12           ` Peter Todd
2015-12-28 19:30             ` Emin Gün Sirer
2015-12-28 19:35               ` Multipool Admin
2015-12-28 19:33             ` Multipool Admin
2015-12-28 20:26             ` Ivan Brightly
2015-12-29 18:59               ` Dave Scotese
2015-12-29 19:08                 ` Jonathan Toomim
2015-12-29 19:25                 ` Allen Piscitello [this message]
2015-12-29 21:51                   ` Dave Scotese
2015-12-20  3:40   ` jl2012
2015-12-20  3:47     ` Chris Priest
2015-12-20  4:24       ` jl2012
2015-12-20  5:12         ` Emin Gün Sirer
2015-12-20  7:39           ` Chris Priest
2015-12-20  7:56             ` Emin Gün Sirer
2015-12-20  8:30               ` Natanael
2015-12-20 11:38           ` Tier Nolan
2015-12-20 12:42             ` Natanael
2015-12-20 15:30               ` Tier Nolan
2015-12-20 13:28           ` Peter Todd
2015-12-20 17:00             ` Emin Gün Sirer
2015-12-21 11:39               ` Jannes Faber
2015-12-25 11:15                 ` Ittay
2015-12-25 12:00                   ` Jonathan Toomim
2015-12-25 12:02                   ` benevolent
2015-12-25 16:11                   ` Jannes Faber
2015-12-26  0:38               ` Geir Harald Hansen
2015-12-28 20:02               ` Peter Todd
2015-12-26  8:23             ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-12-26  8:26               ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-12-26 15:33               ` Jorge Timón
2015-12-26 17:38                 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-12-26 18:01                   ` Jorge Timón
2015-12-26 16:09               ` Tier Nolan
2015-12-26 18:30                 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-12-26 19:34                   ` Jorge Timón
2015-12-26 21:22               ` Jonathan Toomim
2015-12-27  4:33                 ` Emin Gün Sirer

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