From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EA93CB8 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:11:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-vk0-f50.google.com (mail-vk0-f50.google.com [209.85.213.50]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C66C717E for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vk0-f50.google.com with SMTP id f200-v6so3147460vke.0 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 10:11:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=palatinus-cz.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9tOQaOKwfk8t6rGUtPCC9p8xZNhGSxYLvYiiBP/xvuw=; b=P8tZhCJ4S9KoN8dIjFCkM0ggnZNSp6d2v0PbtMdAH+l2H8M6xfVAbMLv6lkASIpOKf dJOmOJxhXehfA9SG+G2fS+azzr2Hrtp98wEoLW64AHmfz9Qd4NS/pCJ7seFSAEblrPFd Me1HoKbtbhE2W/482PX1ssNvoOAu2tCg51X2pxhZuY905huQWfbur9rAgjye9Lp2TAi1 DWu2jBHniUCiGTJ/eWydRLUj5FHuGQJ24e1/0Y0xlzURYuffnj8Bg51k2xhDcrMWEa10 hoZrrib+nSIwdsJJcE+C8CPeFeuTIbYHomUd31tCN/P2Hdu9ithwg8dCLFWT1iZLcquC fWBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9tOQaOKwfk8t6rGUtPCC9p8xZNhGSxYLvYiiBP/xvuw=; b=Ba9y1pt+ced0/74/QPHcKrHkiIwi+aRC7pBItRNrBIAqQ22Cte017k7vy7nI2scCst Ijo54sgFJRdzc+/olKf0WbM0GW3qCOkh2/QFqKDF71q1UYQC1fZKVCjHWXi7LjsXGkTU XsvJx+r9Z1YhW3bcqG5wlExRioEo3rNiLTYu+1qmry0hVzoQaSZYRtN17HFAQ+GWBcCx trXPIab6xP8VPzgoDFXEMk8+JpZayoxk5jjzrHnE8vDUgRjqCkffYnoLhKpzGBmc1ocI wCMRh8eU+pcG6VVSAoByAVuepLDBTMZhFYjZneCUV9cup/tUEoySzR2tiMit/ASjDKqy 29pg== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E1wfzbXSF7GL5lRUGB1HrtmhE+tL+O7Zi9Fq2jlc7XaFqfdHJrx /i3+J2/j0Ow31VM7aK2kAIZWT8NV9tcAZQonQS1M0A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpc/T8YvHJoJ72YnSalzvc+MOMV5wH2HBtY2WIBL25mgQKiBtrUrflCnRQh0jPTWJPrWDbiYQi2cLpxxkRCw4t0= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:a102:: with SMTP id k2-v6mr1530972vke.118.1530033106721; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 10:11:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab0:40c6:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 10:11:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87h8lpbi39.fsf@jb55.com> References: <21a616f5-7a17-35b9-85ea-f779f20a6a2d@satoshilabs.com> <20180621195654.GC99379@coinkite.com> <87h8lpbi39.fsf@jb55.com> From: Marek Palatinus Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 19:11:05 +0200 Message-ID: To: William Casarin , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d2392e056f8e97ba" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 174 thoughts X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:11:48 -0000 --000000000000d2392e056f8e97ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:58 PM, William Casarin via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > seems a bit overkill for how simple the format is, and pulling in a > large dependency just for this is a bit silly. Although making it > protobuf-compatible is an interesting idea, but I fear would be more > work than is worth? I haven't looked closed enough at the protobuf > encoding to be sure. > > > ...while at the same time, implementing "protobuf-based-BIP174" by > > hand is roughly equally difficult as implementing the current BIP174. > > as a data point, I was able to build a simple serializer[1] in about an > afternoon. I would much prefer to use this lib in say, clightning (my > original goal), without having to have the larger protobuf dependency. > > That was exactly matejcik's point; you can easily write protobuf-compatible encoder/decoder for such simple structure in about an afternoon, if you need. Or you can use existing protobuf parsers in matter of minute, if you don't care about dependencies. Also, many projects already have protobuf parsers, so it work in other way, too; you need BIP174 parser as extra dependency/library, although you already use protobuf library (like Trezor device does). For needs of BIP174, the difference between ad-hoc format and protobuf is neglible, so it is a mistake to introduce yet another format. slush --000000000000d2392e056f8e97ba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:58 PM, William Casarin via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:=
seems a bit overkill for how simple the form= at is, and pulling in a
large dependency just for this is a bit silly. Although making it
protobuf-compatible is an interesting idea, but I fear would be more
work than is worth? I haven't looked closed enough at the protobuf
encoding to be sure.

> ...while at the same time, implementing "protobuf-based-BIP174&qu= ot; by
> hand is roughly equally difficult as implementing the current BIP174.<= br>
as a data point, I was able to build a simple serializer[1] in about= an
afternoon. I would much prefer to use this lib in say, clightning (my
original goal), without having to have the larger protobuf dependency.


That was exactly matejcik's point;= you can easily write protobuf-compatible encoder/decoder for such simple s= tructure in about an afternoon, if you need. Or you can use existing protob= uf parsers in matter of minute, if you don't care about dependencies.

Also, many projects already have protobuf parsers, = so it work in other way, too; you need BIP174 parser as extra dependency/li= brary, although you already use protobuf library (like Trezor device does).= For needs of BIP174, the difference between ad-hoc format and protobuf is = neglible, so it is a mistake to introduce yet another format.
slush
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