From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Wznz9-0004fP-Ae for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 14:15:39 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail-ve0-f170.google.com ([209.85.128.170]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Wznz7-0005Vo-Le for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 14:15:39 +0000 Received: by mail-ve0-f170.google.com with SMTP id i13so2051782veh.15 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 07:15:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=CQNiXRHZMkERERSA2oARhKbNVWsbWp9HXJTMkGoreRY=; b=hfLA0NHOsFGKAUeLemSDE+4fAM7xQ8X0CUJs6wB/8eWAVwsm9J+SUFwWBt2JQWTgjV wOQSzJAylJx3/DOTRaFvM7FapWbozXr06n9VW4eFekGGOsBql0k6Pw5poK/hKLZb+iUB m8QU3y4kGlBBwTOzyv1Ekc4CtRChi1OJH7eNuRWR+P8ndfw0/LSzA/3apAZGXHsdCpQk CGB0POUwwf8VW163dqnooqfKA81B0LDFw8tMz/wtUHUu0AhsEJzvsErc/vX0WYNuGAMa BYMmLAXlk5sQ5ZPzKkXS6taHJLzLKZba0j0njEOGsnE/FUks6mz4tTgpMgBgwcpeit7P 22Dw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmzQ7Pb1070OB6xIs8neQvOp9YDaooCN8Xot0PvyJogvNlcn5Vmvo5dKn0S0q9v9oaAAiqf X-Received: by 10.52.92.12 with SMTP id ci12mr436663vdb.90.1403705731860; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 07:15:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: marek@palatinus.cz Received: by 10.58.198.69 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 07:15:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <6E6F88E9-5698-419B-927C-F65A5FCABBE9@gmail.com> From: slush Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:15:01 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: hkT6AAYpizSQS1v1J21BuGIpIV4 Message-ID: To: Mike Hearn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3071c6c684741704fca9b566 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (slush[at]centrum.cz) 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1Wznz7-0005Vo-Le Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposed BIP 70 extension X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 14:15:39 -0000 --20cf3071c6c684741704fca9b566 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > > The protocol is there to contain features! There is zero benefit to > slavishly following some religious notion of purity or minimalism here. > Good standard must be explicit as much as possible. Having million optional fields with ambiguous meaning is even worse than not having these fields. HTTP status codes are good example. There are hundreds of them, still applications understands just few of them, because other have ambiguous meaning and software don't know how to handle them. Good example of such over-engineering is also XMPP. XMPP has milions extensions and features, but look at Jabber clients; call yourself lucky when you can send messages and files, although there're various extensions like searching for contacts (something which has be working in ICQ decade ago), voice support, end to end encryption or alerting users. These features are defined, but not widely implemented, because its definition is vague or the feature is abused because of poor design. Please don't over-engineer payment protocol. Thank you for your attention. slush --20cf3071c6c684741704fca9b566 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On W= ed, Jun 25, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wro= te:
The protocol is there to contain features! There is zero benefit to slavis= hly following some religious notion of purity or minimalism here.

Good standard must be explicit= as much as possible. Having million optional fields with ambiguous meaning= is even worse than not having these fields.

HTTP status codes are good example. There are hundreds of them, still appli= cations understands just few of them, because other have ambiguous meaning = and software don't know how to handle them.

Good example of such over-engineering is also XMPP. XMP= P has milions extensions and features, but look at Jabber clients; call you= rself lucky when you can send messages and files, although there're var= ious extensions like searching for contacts (something which has be working= in ICQ decade ago), voice support, end to end encryption or alerting users= . These features are defined, but not widely implemented, because its defin= ition is vague or the feature is abused because of poor design.

Please don't over-engineer payment protocol.
<= div>
Thank you for your attention.

s= lush


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