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From: Erik Aronesty <erik@q32.com>
To: John Carvalho <john@synonym.to>,
	 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
	<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2022 09:02:18 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJowKgJ8GP4Ykzn5dMHZ7wsE04YmpOLgTpdc9tgfVng0qB0Jjg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHTn92zw_MaSKWiZGhGFqFYXJxv6kQ+7=XCHbRLim1jhtEsVVQ@mail.gmail.com>

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Maintaining the security of the protocol is squarely the responsibility of
the Bitcoin software and the core developers

Continued demand for block space is critical for Bitcoin's security.

Therefore it *is* the responsibility of Bitcoin software and core
developers to maintain a continued demand for block space - which underpins
the game-theoretical security of the protocol.

While I'm personally confident that demand is still high, enough to
reasonably secure the protocol, I do think that this is a matter not best
left up to stern opinions.   Whether covenant tech is essential for that
security or not is a matter for simulations and proofs, not hype and
speculation - on either side of the issue.


On Sat, Jun 4, 2022 at 8:36 AM John Carvalho via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Core development is not a hackathon project.
>
> None of the quoted following items are features or responsibilities of the
> Bitcoin software, nor Core developers.
>
> Quoted:
> "- Developers can build interesting projects with real demand in market.
> - Students learn Sapio and not just solidity.
> - Better tooling could be available for application developers.
> - Maybe we see bitcoin developer hackathons in different countries.
> - Demand for block space might increase, it wont be just exchanges and
> coinjoin.
> - Funding of bitcoin developers and projects might improve. Wont need to
> convince a few people for grants."
>
> Whether you are a child or an attacker, none of us should care, but CTV,
> nor any change to Bitcoin software, will never be justifiable simply
> because you and some of your friends think it is totally cool and might
> make more people like you or give your friends funding.
>
> Please stop making noise about CTV, this is not a place for spamming.
>
> --
> John Carvalho
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 4, 2022 at 1:00 PM <
> bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2022 18:39:34 +0000
>> From: alicexbt <alicexbt@protonmail.com>
>> To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
>>         <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>> Subject: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <QOWIpROGDv5HHP2GsDiSOsTJ9TVZhFeSP3C03_e2Z3XtOKC_4N5GJtxbdlxuhErvhLZXo1Rn_7SWAQ9XRPwHFuYyArZryTVENefDZuGTAYA=@
>> protonmail.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Note: This email is an opinion and not an attack on bitcoin
>>
>> Covenants on bitcoin will eventually be implemented with a soft fork. CTV
>> is the easiest and best possible way OP_TX looks good as well. Apart from
>> the technical merits, covenants will improve a few other things:
>>
>> - Developers can build interesting projects with real demand in market.
>> - Students learn Sapio and not just solidity.
>> - Better tooling could be available for application developers.
>> - Maybe we see bitcoin developer hackathons in different countries.
>> - Demand for block space might increase, it wont be just exchanges and
>> coinjoin.
>> - Funding of bitcoin developers and projects might improve. Wont need to
>> convince a few people for grants.
>>
>> **Why covenants are not contentious?**
>>
>> Some people may write paragraphs about CTV being contentious, spread
>> misinformation and do all types of drama, politics etc. on social media but
>> there are zero technical NACKs for CTV. We have discussed other covenant
>> proposals in detail on mailing list and IRC meetings with an open minded
>> approach.
>>
>> All the developers that participated in the discussion are either okay
>> with CTV or OP_TX or covenants in general.
>>
>> **How and when should covenants be implemented in Bitcoin?**
>>
>> I don't think we should wait for years anticipating a proposal that
>> everyone will agree on or argue for years to pretend changes are hard in
>> Bitcoin. We should improve the review process for soft fork BIPs and share
>> honest opinions with agreement, disagreement on technical merits.
>>
>> I prefer BIP 8 or improved BIP 8 for soft fork but I won't mind anything
>> else being used if that improves Bitcoin. Covenants implemented in Bitcoin
>> before the next cycle would provide opportunity for developers to build
>> interesting things during the bear market. Ossification supporters also
>> believe there is some window that will close soon, maybe doing changes
>> considering each case individually will be a better approach. CTV is not a
>> rushed soft fork, less people followed the research and it was not
>> mentioned on social media repeatedly by the respected developers like other
>> soft forks.
>>
>> /dev/fd0
>>
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2022-06-06 13:02 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <mailman.9.1654344003.14400.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
2022-06-04 12:27 ` [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable John Carvalho
2022-06-04 13:48   ` Keagan McClelland
2022-06-04 16:12   ` alicexbt
2022-06-06 13:02   ` Erik Aronesty [this message]
2022-06-12  3:36     ` Peter Todd
2022-06-12 13:02       ` Erik Aronesty
2022-06-12 16:35         ` Corey Haddad
2022-06-12 19:16       ` alicexbt
2022-06-19 10:31         ` Peter Todd
2022-06-19 15:54           ` Manuel Costa
2022-06-19 18:26             ` Kate Salazar
2022-06-19 22:35             ` Erik Aronesty
2022-06-21 19:00               ` Keagan McClelland
2022-06-21 20:10                 ` Eric Voskuil
2022-06-23 19:17                 ` Peter Todd
2022-06-28  3:55                   ` Billy Tetrud
2022-06-28 16:23                     ` Alex Lee
2022-06-28 23:22                       ` Peter Todd
2022-06-29  5:02                         ` Alex Lee
2022-06-28 23:20                     ` Peter Todd
2022-06-29 10:44                     ` Kate Salazar
2022-06-30 15:25                       ` Billy Tetrud
2022-07-03  9:43                       ` Peter Todd
2022-07-03 10:30                         ` Giuseppe B
2022-07-06  4:28                           ` Corey Haddad
2022-07-06 11:10                             ` vjudeu
2022-07-07  0:46                               ` Billy Tetrud
2022-07-07 12:15                                 ` vjudeu
2022-07-07 14:05                                 ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-07 14:10                               ` Giuseppe B
2022-07-08  5:03                                 ` Billy Tetrud
2022-06-30 17:04                     ` Erik Aronesty
     [not found] <mailman.9.1657195203.20624.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
2022-07-07 13:24 ` John Carvalho
2022-07-07 14:12   ` Peter Todd
2022-07-07 16:24     ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-07 17:37       ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-07 19:57         ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-07 21:11           ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-08  0:28             ` Eric Voskuil
2022-07-08  4:59               ` vjudeu
2022-07-08  7:26                 ` John Carvalho
2022-07-08 15:14               ` Erik Aronesty
2022-07-14  4:55                 ` Billy Tetrud
2022-07-07 22:06     ` Anthony Towns
2022-07-07 22:02   ` Corey Haddad
2022-06-03 18:39 alicexbt
2022-06-04  0:29 ` micaroni
2022-06-04 18:43 ` Jorge Timón
2022-06-05  4:18   ` alicexbt
2022-06-08  3:51     ` Billy Tetrud
2022-06-08  9:22       ` Jorge Timón
2022-06-09  4:30         ` Billy Tetrud
2022-06-09  0:03     ` Ryan Grant
2022-07-19  4:44 ` Anthony Towns
2022-07-19 14:46   ` alicexbt

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