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[2a00:1450:4864:20::629]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5b1f17b1804b1-4909d1eccf9si562265e9.3.2026.05.30.12.28.40 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 30 May 2026 12:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::629 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::629; Received: by mail-ej1-x629.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-bd6460b0d11so2609717366b.1 for ; Sat, 30 May 2026 12:28:40 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1780169320; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=hOUS919SxGjIAxZ08r6KdQBQF7oQ34p2NL1tmEmpRmg/ojRaYMw5yyNaTLp/Q8YkE1 EVVHlPCF5FtW5ME+yZ8WXkeAia9qZjfzKWzLleFYvQu+7XfCtcCf0p9CdDWrBxhqcXgm D88hNL6fKIWY+EzCYEig3mb1y/3QeVFUzHiYQTLD/uKT+YkgdqWoUDrtx7rVDNFsxAmX nCXIJKut0K1Pd0QgIjzmdai00w2tMQGcOFVUqHJfdBAEtuJCq+/gbgnSbjMZ8cDjP710 BPRNa5Aa71hVdE6zsCb6vJSa2SnRCumS2exid04Zi3U21NKE4j/+F8VD0fcnJJnQOue7 Gp2Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=sTgTWipHNzCmmmNvr7E0v6ehtcsl1WLvLwbVH9iT4YQ=; fh=nbAZClzpXYwaQIrDn+crdjPlqeKtlwDC7mccRDseXSA=; b=KjlftG2/EXIJMQHhS/DSVDaZLLCqE9b0XRzElpWK3F1lJ6bydafu9wFVkiOOiuouIG Gm12qBmmSaGLwV9XQSkf92YXvpO9XMrZLRg+1MMuxso0U10wEt8Ze56pkv4DsEzqSoDe Cw6Esm8TNY7FkKjFDu/FpqDMLgU/TuoMrGOV7EChh+p3t5O6RVLGroPzkNoKsyCDwd8H Ck1d6nSn75DW0PBT5MoEZFeNKNFY6xAkFB9EjRLG5R9A476oO/SnxfY1iBcG6uGzWts0 GfmwJ6btr+U1TQDhx1SEav3b0ethQLA6Q0bJUl7R3mhDkxtcH58Pje5+BetNd4392PBh wc2w==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none X-Gm-Gg: Acq92OE+s2LjrEjeC5X1vr5DwIEj5nLpFhSXI6dNNYoOG6W8IAyGIy5YShO5EKDpiea pZXClsaE3giN74Ra7XUl3UY/z3lBbYYQWRv1Nu1Fecyue0cwq7GjePvFnvgDZ4cBwOmdMj4GHmL fRllARDH6+gM0PEREajB7JW7TusVqcm5RaepBus7CgH0kNDM2tughUkR/TMp3TDxBZ8IBdlVrJR NCJzj5o8JVPeDe4S27jhU3uyVfZCV/wCB+tUHusrV9rhcI2yEYXYtpCYpJH2EYEwYsRX4VhN4kb SjypOCirZCO4Rem4m4zQRc6eYiI7QukUBjg1HtfZux55O1e2quleeg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7f8a:b0:bd2:e940:db25 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-beab4232492mr251860266b.13.1780169319997; Sat, 30 May 2026 12:28:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <28eeaa8b-dc19-463f-882f-1ed69c4c9037@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <28eeaa8b-dc19-463f-882f-1ed69c4c9037@app.fastmail.com> From: Erik Aronesty Date: Sat, 30 May 2026 12:28:30 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AVHnY4KdjSy5NuiGwE7Q_0jP5pR5jy0QR4PueOzAqwnmy3fVtCWlIr8vlIlRAQE Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Weak Quantum Bounty Ceremony To: Nikita Karetnikov Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f5671306530df754" X-Original-Sender: erik@q32.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@q32-com.20251104.gappssmtp.com header.s=20251104 header.b=BhtY0eVy; arc=pass (i=1); spf=pass (google.com: domain of earonesty@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::629 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=earonesty@gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --000000000000f5671306530df754 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > If the network is not updated to be post-quantum, the attackers can just go for the funds elsewhere .This assumes that quantum computing speedup for classical computing is feasible and finite-energy for classically interprable results, which has not been proven or demonstrated > The counterargument is that a discovery can be made by a lab that=E2=80= =99s not interested in stealing. Yes, and this bounty would not be stealing, so labs can freely do this legally. > The bounty is already there, it=E2=80=99s the network itself, pre- or post-quantum. This is a canary bounty with a weaker key, presumably it will be unlocked at least a few months in advance of any needed emergency upgrades, should they ever prove necessary. On Sat, May 30, 2026 at 12:18=E2=80=AFPM Nikita Karetnikov wrote: > Dear Erik, > > The bounty idea has been discussed recently in =E2=80=9CWhat if we let Qu= antum > Hunters get Bitcoin rewards ?=E2=80=9D > I=E2=80=99ve also seen it mentioned elsewhere. > > Before going into the implementation, let=E2=80=99s discuss the concept. > I don=E2=80=99t understand what problem is being solved by the bounty. > To me it serves no purpose. > > If the network is not updated to be post-quantum, the attackers can just > go for the funds elsewhere. > The counterargument is that a discovery can be made by a lab that=E2=80= =99s not > interested in stealing. > What is the bounty for in that case? > The researchers are primarily motivated by producing novel results. > They already receive salary and the companies working on this have fundin= g. > This also assumes that the lab would be allowed to publish this result > publicly. > They would have other means to demonstrate their discovery as well. > Why would you optimize for this very specific use case? > > And if the network is updated to be post-quantum, the PQ bounty has no > purpose. > > The bounty is already there, it=E2=80=99s the network itself, pre- or pos= t-quantum. > > Thanks, > Nikita > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/28eeaa8b-dc19-463f-882f-1ed6= 9c4c9037%40app.fastmail.com > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAJowKgJZk%3Dc17stAtWxa%3Dh1fAhZL4YfvbbAY%2Bgo32wmDKffNzQ%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000f5671306530df754 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>=C2=A0 If the network is not updated to be post-quantu= m, the attackers can just go for the funds elsewhere

.This assumes t= hat quantum computing speedup for classical computing is feasible and finit= e-energy for classically interprable results, which has not been proven or = demonstrated

> The counterargument is that a discovery can be mad= e by a lab that=E2=80=99s not interested in stealing.

Yes, and this = bounty would not be stealing, so labs can freely do this legally.

&g= t;=C2=A0 The bounty is already there, it=E2=80=99s the network itself, pre- or post-= quantum.

This is a canary bounty with a weaker key, presumably=C2=A0= it will be unlocked at least a few months in advance of any needed emergenc= y upgrades, should they ever prove necessary.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

On Sat, May 30, 2026 at 12:18=E2=80=AFPM Nikita Karetnikov <= ;nikita@karetnikov.org> wro= te:
Dear Erik,
The bounty idea has been discussed recently in =E2=80=9CWhat if we let Quan= tum Hunters get Bitcoin rewards ?=E2=80=9D
I=E2=80=99ve also seen it mentioned elsewhere.

Before going into the implementation, let=E2=80=99s discuss the concept. I don=E2=80=99t understand what problem is being solved by the bounty.
To me it serves no purpose.

If the network is not updated to be post-quantum, the attackers can just go= for the funds elsewhere.
The counterargument is that a discovery can be made by a lab that=E2=80=99s= not interested in stealing.
What is the bounty for in that case?
The researchers are primarily motivated by producing novel results.
They already receive salary and the companies working on this have funding.=
This also assumes that the lab would be allowed to publish this result publ= icly.
They would have other means to demonstrate their discovery as well.
Why would you optimize for this very specific use case?

And if the network is updated to be post-quantum, the PQ bounty has no purp= ose.

The bounty is already there, it=E2=80=99s the network itself, pre- or post-= quantum.

Thanks,
Nikita

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 28eeaa8b-dc19-463f-882f-1ed69c4c9037%40app.fastmail.com.

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