From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1F7C0011 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:05:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7B340B24 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:05:05 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 4A7B340B24 Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 header.b=8XTEH7Cg X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17mb58tusduT for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:05:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 4AE07408B6 Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AE07408B6 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:05:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id a11so23921420ljb.5 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:05:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+wXGcp3BtGhccEun6tu8DWEzWR8l6/K2VT5xlkQeTwg=; b=8XTEH7Cg6kfoSh+eoh4mBUFJfJb/LYUEHzk2S0K2PSm1XhS0QcpFvDNPoMajeyvQKT QW6Hnu3VYvYdDt/ENbdOxitgpzxLQr/zw9d8JXzm5scIKBnygxxT+Nh5i7aOFB5bG7Vw ZJ+GAFVMtAIv5BOIMiyqasZvHydxfCRXLlIx+UJzQI6YxRIDA9reQNwcN/guVIwbmVLt 1S4MEanPLF0Psu9utYFcdsch1JonWadpw/iarsKxf8ymvQMBdzk51S8/XNi+Kobifang QZfpctgGeISQkJ1jWvZ1FTsZkuFdn6/UQj5I35KvD0WoFjuQ75aQgVWsXyvWFahdaKn3 nS9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+wXGcp3BtGhccEun6tu8DWEzWR8l6/K2VT5xlkQeTwg=; b=qRufJPEaFtpEHEPLmyZVzkkpctJTgtdqn4oQPGXvNJnjTgSduU7kR34ymFsYMkmxus JEKsUYM5UYgo9qmQAG4pDd7MEqKvvcPYK4/hHLecSI6QwH2rDB4HBZpzefdSX16IarjI 9KsCLHcQGeH6rC7egJpchSpNcmb7gq+VNQ73J/XRpuWizsyfN8cFJa1Lwtci0cZPN77Y 0hLNxIex1V1/lgrT5fi+0agKYjM4zdto2kDAHzjgwc39YibSRRIFcZakE1rhDJkhDpkU obg9nO6HkW/LSBH9B/wb8YWfJgqIg4ts1yIBvq5mQGXS+/x9UPd69d0wWb1za3mS+Qpd zOYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+aa3DbX6ZK18A3gsQnRINGEn+4lhgv8v2UBidNZLGWVowaevOX zJN/StQx3rQh6mGXGyi2acKCymK0PyY9IfudkW5ISbU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tUUzA2klTPUYwoi9qJSl0uq8QweNqqDPSZPG2/5m5aqmDsHVRx/SmxS2O6NQ0oN4yMy8v8x4Goy0Tn1xk7mZw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:987:b0:25b:ce6b:1a9 with SMTP id b7-20020a05651c098700b0025bce6b01a9mr6083957ljq.275.1656608702188; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:05:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Erik Aronesty Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:04:50 -0400 Message-ID: To: Billy Tetrud , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000039d1f505e2ad452f" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 21:22:34 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:05:05 -0000 --00000000000039d1f505e2ad452f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Anyway, demurrage and inflation have identical economic properties. They're >> both a tax on savings. The only difference is the way that tax is >> implemented. > > the fact that a conversation on inflation is continuing without being ignored is probably an indicator that the utility of on-chain services as an incentive to drive fees is a worthwhile consideration. i especially like the proposed and very simple on-chain "payment codes" idea, for example. if a light-touch is used, bitcoin operators can thread the needle allowing utility to grow a bit in response to halvings. i suspect lightning ate a lot of the on-chain fees. future "compression and privacy" protocols, like mweb, should keep this concern in mind. --00000000000039d1f505e2ad452f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anyway, demurrage and inflation have identical economi= c properties. They're
both a tax on savings. The only difference is the way that tax is implement= ed.

the fact that a=C2= =A0conversation on inflation is continuing without being ignored is probabl= y an indicator that the utility of on-chain services as an incentive to dri= ve fees is a worthwhile consideration.=C2=A0 i especially like the proposed= and very simple on-chain "payment codes" idea, for example.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0if a light-touch is used, bitcoin=C2=A0operators can thread the n= eedle allowing utility to grow a bit in response to halvings.=C2=A0 i suspe= ct lightning ate a lot of the on-chain fees.=C2=A0 =C2=A0future "compr= ession and privacy" protocols, like mweb, should keep this concern in = mind.

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