From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D399EC002D for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 15:04:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FA8483E44 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 15:04:29 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org 9FA8483E44 Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 header.b=lw8TBKE0 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ItlV1Cu-1RO for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 15:04:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org CE48E83E43 Received: from mail-vs1-xe34.google.com (mail-vs1-xe34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e34]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE48E83E43 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 15:04:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vs1-xe34.google.com with SMTP id 125so10943900vsx.7 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 08:04:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=37wyJdrmEa+zwxy5tZ4pOKQxyKtgKASyOOiPM24Zpdw=; b=lw8TBKE0KV6L3kKOm8c8pyR4AIj2vnXuARJ62mE9lTJ/tdMWYhF1h4+7ICCduKMqEv PZbooE4KSElt4As0QOiBMz0TiHQQ1jEaXgq0uuTn9yCt9VelnbBfFHo+p+uPYQ0di1iy ZUzCk4KqLr0m3ipwfUOzLGg1d6r2cdEZU7aRkQfJLCJB3laOUixqh1VxNPC3YF8tUBAi WsPAQEgzVGVZ/uuinfCX30Oz86bydDp4tpqqjPr2mPDEVJjnH855XxvfrUZIe94POQTV VVHOg93kAOqLcumisOru4z/ffoBtu+l7hAfsLqRSeaOFziDK7Sv/sQPu/dVP8/2F7zQ4 kBQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=37wyJdrmEa+zwxy5tZ4pOKQxyKtgKASyOOiPM24Zpdw=; b=Jrcj+MmQD1n0U8j8mydqjYDPJ4yHJgsVzsytltZSlKY5nHmA/ruCH3U1xu1VOz/6Oj sWUYyV9nyizosEF2P8eTKQVZMY14jCs9awlo2D0wtuALRrhDV3SWsIux7gABamnhrOBL oBcvFQieSYUQqguYD03cD9uFyH51dqG/iJ5DW7GgSB/OqU96MweOD5aJwVrxQEKB/0lo mZhv3Uhu7LqXMiPfOJTDvYKlO5rnu8w7Eko1osiOfHgnDO3R9p0ndF8huE5PbQTwzs1m pHkwIX2w8PCBPyZHIgRQwn+ds+aPa1tzRKxLZ5fLs2FiwKCYcETlahv5CRd6rYoP+3VI eiYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/mjuV24WnJa3YWEKL3UdWqSnjnsndOzVE6uDEN9pLs7h3kFnjn GikGSQnLajN3lgjAs8yk/mSA5/RJ4zxb+9lUOG8QPGo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tyKcSODcbobjrO06D+vW1grHajsKixG44aSzMYtALnULop5QnLzipM3CEGqplpGR78jSXKYl+92NVcKGcOkp4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:30a8:b0:358:397b:2390 with SMTP id y8-20020a05610230a800b00358397b2390mr3543780vsd.57.1658761467492; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 08:04:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6xuj-ljJ9hvME-TIgWHmfPpad4aJ-1zTYSH1NBuFL_gi-6hJHMayWLEAhcEyw_lqmkR24ee8uMIAH6n4TDguk_5fJ8och99Em3m5y1R6brE=@protonmail.com> <08a53f48e81f1da06bd688e524ae4ec7@dtrt.org> In-Reply-To: From: Erik Aronesty Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 11:04:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: "David A. Harding" , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000097e8a05e4a28049" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 08:20:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Surprisingly, Tail Emission Is Not Inflationary X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 15:04:29 -0000 --000000000000097e8a05e4a28049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" even with zero block reward and minimal fees, large holders who perform zero transactions will still mine in order to preserve the value of the network this is not "mining your own tx", it is unrelated this is "mining at a small loss to preserve your stake" not only don't we need issuance or fees, but also the censorship resistance is not meaningfully improved with issuance On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 3:14 PM Erik Aronesty wrote: > >> subsidy to directly tie miner revenue to the total value of Bitcoin >> makes it not exactly how we want to incentivise a service that keeps >> >> > again, this is meaningless. if the fees aren't enough to keep bitcoin > secure for large transactions, then large holders are incentivised to mine > > that's it. > > it's not complicated > --000000000000097e8a05e4a28049 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
even with zero block reward and minimal fees, large h= olders who perform zero transactions will still mine in order to preserve t= he value of the network

this is not "mining y= our own tx", it is unrelated

this is "mi= ning at a small loss to preserve your stake"

= not only don't we need issuance or fees, but also the censorship resist= ance is not meaningfully improved with issuance=C2=A0

<= /div>
O= n Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 3:14 PM Erik Aronesty <erik@q32.com> wrote:

subsidy to directly tie miner reve= nue to the total value of Bitcoin
makes it not exactly how we want to incentivise a service that keeps

again, this is meaningless.=C2=A0 =C2=A0= if the fees aren't enough=C2=A0to keep=C2=A0 bitcoin secure for large t= ransactions, then large holders are incentivised to mine

that's it.

it's not complicated
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