From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FC07C002D for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 22:36:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A169408CD for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 22:36:10 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 5A169408CD Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 header.b=syRUklIG X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mjkne2ZBIa0F for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 22:36:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 5723740191 Received: from mail-lf1-x132.google.com (mail-lf1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::132]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5723740191 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 22:36:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf1-x132.google.com with SMTP id t25so14540462lfg.7 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:36:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YQKKwibeaVbaIjxdFfHYUiywaV0gnLcmGbD/nrESoEQ=; b=syRUklIGkJVdPqgVMvPHZEHww/PKZfSX0EU33iW3MHzm85qGbPuUXVaubeH9opVk0X atOEVmIbRimS2dnzjCx6onEMnU5oUkCPZ031bijguFZ1WaLvmwvdzS2egMNvetZBag9u xBR0Lmp5s/v+atGkK0adOBBNYRHZh8i4ewOovRq7JNMqx42CxyYocqihyKxCYr6UkoSr nWgSGaLmirA+oh6Nbq4au91uRlQExaVqhoTeiEXyj+o2ZC2dd0qP06YW4hFVO+2voPno k/aoK3IMvPUofAX4rk+QiB3wJiIu/Qd60O82WyWQfzzXnnT/z/e90gl6i9rdOi3r3rk8 m8qQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YQKKwibeaVbaIjxdFfHYUiywaV0gnLcmGbD/nrESoEQ=; b=Wr71Kh/r8s6C20PYaKNXHYaNPXBMv/yzLucBVIobeglKoMsS1HLQJCDLqy5zYUn4EO O5HacS5xkMqwPDtn5iOiclxthYCI7qyHjJFemQFcZcJK1DJK4Zqn5/fdGZ2pjOYxl/wX Lw67w8oXN8t/j38ihMkn7RhYIYgYPCzthtOH9ikzAcIigxh3Yafoo+R5i4ClTmVgJ7Ox zDHPlqJiQqv9ycCWxzdr2uZXEbEtAtqTvL/mKX0ofKOX2vdm8UNQn7iMuCziNc5dWiER FEIqrjaq/rnZeZpdQVy+kNBAXGTAxiTtCVq4MitZQf8+b1RvwxbTVadOGktls7BkbRtN rKUA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora8uZBALW7ocj+CFIidswskubDj2yXZSw35wyrT6XXmEKfGiVPZX qCM2rorDymeVQntcRTMLp90SvuZMXWUVpCvhu1oIq/KLzsK3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tuvFYxFqlMSY8sO2NJDOXvxN7NzwcoJvhPcpcMzODNE8WCG1WAAA/197o+iU0S89Y6/pUTH20qMxQMEdpYgfg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:31d3:b0:479:478e:2628 with SMTP id j19-20020a05651231d300b00479478e2628mr12389432lfe.153.1655678167071; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Erik Aronesty Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 18:35:55 -0400 Message-ID: To: Manuel Costa , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000002c1a305e1d49dca" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:41:40 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 22:36:10 -0000 --00000000000002c1a305e1d49dca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 2:04 PM Manuel Costa via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > if we start seeing issues with block rewards being too low to maintain > acceptable security, we're going to have multiple solutions being > implemented for it, and definitely a hard fork to indefinitely maintain > some degree of block subsidy > if we failed to first try increasing block demand with advanced transaction support, it would seem like we were just throwing money and growth away to support one narrative (simplicty of function), while destroying another (finite supply) if stuff like covenant support and mweb gets us higher fees, with stuff like on-chain mixing protocols, vaults, and higher utility, it might be more than enough to sustain bitcoin on fees alone forever --00000000000002c1a305e1d49dca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 2:04 PM Manue= l Costa via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
=C2=A0= if we start seeing issues with block rewards being too low to maintain acce= ptable security, we're going to have multiple solutions being implement= ed for it, and definitely a hard fork to indefinitely maintain some degree = of block subsidy

if we failed t= o first try increasing block demand with advanced transaction support, it w= ould seem like we were just throwing money and growth away to support one n= arrative (simplicty=C2=A0of function), while destroying another (finite sup= ply)=C2=A0

if stuff like covenant support and mweb= gets us higher fees, with=C2=A0stuff like on-chain mixing protocols, vault= s, and higher utility, it might be more than enough to sustain bitcoin on f= ees alone forever
=C2=A0
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