From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VQDaa-0000uz-DA for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 09:46:56 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.215.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.44; envelope-from=melvincarvalho@gmail.com; helo=mail-la0-f44.google.com; Received: from mail-la0-f44.google.com ([209.85.215.44]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1VQDaZ-0001tD-1U for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 09:46:56 +0000 Received: by mail-la0-f44.google.com with SMTP id eo20so3540838lab.3 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 02:46:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.143.3 with SMTP id sa3mr16956739lbb.12.1380448008343; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 02:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.159.233 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 02:46:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2c70dbfc173749cf4198c591f19a7d33@astutium.com> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 11:46:48 +0200 Message-ID: From: Melvin Carvalho To: Neil Fincham Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e011827ae2b147d04e78299fc X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: doubleclick.net] -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (melvincarvalho[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.0 LOTS_OF_MONEY Huge... sums of money X-Headers-End: 1VQDaZ-0001tD-1U Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] smart contracts -- possible use case? yes or no? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 09:46:56 -0000 --089e011827ae2b147d04e78299fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 29 September 2013 04:28, Neil Fincham wrote: > I subscribe to this list so I can keep up-to date with bitcoin > development, can we keep philosophy and tax evasion out of it? > Hi Neil, perhaps I didnt present the use case clearly. It was not about evasion, it was about voluntary donations going to the correct place, being verified by an oracle. I dont wish to stray off topic, so I'll leave it at that. > > Neil > > > On 29 September 2013 09:15, wrote: > >> > But the regulatory environment in many geographical regions in >> > uncertain. Do we need to pay capital gains? Do we need to pay a >> > sales taxs etc. etc. >> >> In most regions it's not only 'simple' but trivial - BTC is just >> 'another currency' and accounted for exactly the same way - it doens't >> matter if you sell your hose for GBP, USD, EUR, BTC or sacks of Pig >> Dung, you still have a GBP tax issue ... >> >> > So my idea is to voluntarily pre empt legislation by giving donations >> > to govt (aka taxation) for bitcoin service providers. >> >> You want to volunteer to pay tax ? I'd suggest stronger medication ... >> >> > However, there is something of a problem with voluntary donations. >> > Most people are not satisfied with the way they are spent. >> >> 80% of 'donations' end up spent on 'adminsitration' and not what they >> were donated for, this is a 'greed' issue not a 'currency' issue. >> >> > In the UK >> > a recent survey said that only 18% of people thought that tax money >> > was wisely spent. >> >> Tax isn't voluntary or a donation. The 18% who think UK tax is well >> spent are the 18% of the population who get the tax money, not the 82% >> that pay it ;) >> >> > Can we fix it? >> >> First we kill all the politicians ... >> >> > So let's say I run a business and I make 1 million euros. I wish to >> > donate 10% of my profits to society. But let's say I dont want that >> > money to go to wars of aggression, but rather, to the fire >> > de[department. >> >> So give it to the FD - what you do with your post-tax profits are up to >> you ;) >> >> > At this point everyone wins. The business person is happy to make a >> > contribution. The govt. is happy that it gets more revenue. The >> > fire dept. is happy that it has revenue to do its work. And >> > everything has gone to the right place in a kind of democratic way. >> >> Where does gov't come into this ? I think you're confusing 'tax' which >> you have zero control over and 'donations' which you already have 100% >> control over. >> >> Rob >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> October Webinars: Code for Performance >> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. >> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most >> from >> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register > >> >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > October Webinars: Code for Performance > Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. > Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most > from > the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > --089e011827ae2b147d04e78299fc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On 29 September 2013 04:28, Neil Fincham <neil@asdf.co.nz> wrote:
I subscribe to this list so= I can keep up-to date with bitcoin development, can we keep philosophy and= tax evasion out of it?

Hi Neil, perhaps I didnt present the use c= ase clearly.=A0 It was not about evasion, it was about voluntary donations = going to the correct place, being verified by an oracle.=A0 I dont wish to = stray off topic, so I'll leave it at that.
=A0

Neil


=
On 29 September 2013 09:15, <rob.golding@astutium.com> wrote:
> But the regulatory environment in many geographical regions in > uncertain. =A0 Do we need to pay capital gains?=A0=A0 Do we need to pa= y a
> sales taxs etc. etc.

In most regions it's not only 'simple' but trivial - BTC = is just
'another currency' and accounted for exactly the same way - it doen= s't
matter if you sell your hose for GBP, USD, EUR, BTC or sacks of Pig
Dung, you still have a GBP tax issue ...

> So my idea is to voluntarily pre empt legislation by giving donations<= br> > to govt (aka taxation) for bitcoin service providers.=A0

You want to volunteer to pay tax ? I'd suggest stronger medicatio= n ...

> However, there is something of a problem with voluntary donations.=A0<= br> > Most people are not satisfied with the way they are spent.

80% of 'donations' end up spent on 'adminsitration' a= nd not what they
were donated for, this is a 'greed' issue not a 'currency' = issue.

> In the UK
> a recent survey said that only 18% of people thought that tax money > was wisely spent.

Tax isn't voluntary or a donation. The 18% who think UK tax is we= ll
spent are the 18% of the population who get the tax money, not the 82%
that pay it ;)

> Can we fix it?

First we kill all the politicians ...

> So let's say I run a business and I make 1 million euros.=A0 I wis= h to
> donate 10% of my profits to society.=A0 But let's say I dont want = that
> money to go to wars of aggression, but rather, to the fire
> de[department.=A0

So give it to the FD - what you do with your post-tax profits are up = to
you ;)

> At this point everyone wins.=A0 The business person is happy to make a=
> contribution.=A0 The govt. is happy that it gets more revenue.=A0 The<= br> > fire dept. is happy that it has revenue to do its work.=A0 And
> everything has gone to the right place in a kind of democratic way.
Where does gov't come into this ? I think you're confusing &#= 39;tax' which
you have zero control over and 'donations' which you already have 1= 00%
control over.

Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
October Webinars: Code for Performance
Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr= om
the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g= t;
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D60133471&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


-----------------------------------------------------------= -------------------
October Webinars: Code for Performance
Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr= om
the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g= t;
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D60133471&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
___________________= ____________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


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